The Founding Fathers were Deists, So Is Mitt Romney's Mormonism keeping you from voting for him?

http://members.aol.com/TestOath/deism.htm ^

[klimeckg]

Thomas Paine and the Age of Reason

Thomas Paine is sometimes grouped with the Founding Fathers. Your daily newspaper might reinforce this view with editorials like this:

Franklin, Washington, Jefferson, Paine and most of our other patriarchs were at best deists, believing in the unmoved mover of Aristotle, but not the God of the Old and New Testaments.[1]

It would be difficult to name a single one of the Founding Fathers who approved of Paine's Age of Reason, his famous tract attacking religion in general and evangelical Christianity in particular. Even less-than-evangelicals like Benjamin Franklin and the "Unitarians" all denounced Paine's book.

Before Paine published his Age of Reason, he sent a manuscript copy to Benjamin Franklin, seeking his thoughts. Notice Franklin's strong and succinct reply, and keep in mind that those on all sides of the religion question would concede Franklin to be one of the least religious Founders:

I have read your manuscript with some attention. By the argument it contains against a particular Providence, though you allow a general Providence, you strike at the foundations of all religion. For without the belief of a Providence that takes cognizance of, guards, and guides, and may favor particular persons, there is no motive to worship a Deity, to fear his displeasure, or to pray for his protection. I will not enter into any discussion of your principles, though you seem to desire it. At present I shall only give you my opinion that . . . the consequence of printing this piece will be a great deal of odium drawn upon yourself, mischief to you, and no benefit to others. He that spits into the wind, spits in his own face. But were you to succeed, do you imagine any good would be done by it? . . .

[Syncro]

No, the fact that I get called a bigot for questioning him is keeping me from voting for him.

Isn't that weird? I was trying to find out more about him, and from questioning his issues and asking questions about his stance I was told I was spitting on him and hated him. Also was called a whore.

Some of his supporters have a strange way of debating the issues.

[fproy2222]

The title includes Mitt Romney’s Mormonism - but we’re supposed not to answer all the “Mormons aren’t Christian” posts?

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The thread is whether his religion is impacting people voting for him, not if Mormonism is Christianity. If you want to hijack it, its up to you.

In answer to the seminal question, I think the answer is “Clearly it is” based on the post here on FR alone.

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Only problem I see with your way of doing it is that if we do not speak up to correct the misconceptions and lies put out here, more people will believe that which is untrue about our Church.

[rhombus]

Hadn’t you heard, Hunter has withdrawn. ;-)

[britt reed]

I wonder if folks would take Joseph Smith more seriously had he been struck by lightning while traveling between Poughkepsie and Kinderhook?

[Captain Rhino]

Yesterday, I read an article lead that said he was raised an Episcopalian but is now claiming to be a Baptist.

Beyond that, I don’t know.

[britt reed]

You are too sensitive by half. Best you don't mix religion and politics for a while.

BTW, if I felt all that beat up because some fundie sent me an email telling me that mine was a vote for Satan, I'd shrug it off ~ unless, of course, it was a vote for Satan and I didn't want anyone to know that.

So, which is it? Meaningless, or the real thing.

I would cast my vote for Satan before I would cast my vote for Huckleberry. Both are deceitful beings who pervert the word of God to further their own ends. Difference is, Huckleberry claims to be a man of God.

I wouldn't doubt Huckleberry could be the Anti-Christ.

[Elsie]

The Founding Fathers were Deists, So Is Mitt Romney's Mormonism keeping you from voting for him?

Huh?

[Elsie]

I was lucky blessed to be born in the USA.

But my PRIORITIES are still GOD & country.

IF Romney's grandparents had STAYED in MExico, we would not be having this discussion; would we?

[Elsie]

NOW IS NOT THE TIME IN HISTORY TO TEACH TEH PARTY A LESSON!!)

When WOULD be a good time?

[Elsie]

No, it’s meant to say who cares what the President believes in.

That is...

...as long as he(she?) ain't a stinkin' MUSLIM!!!!

(Ooops! is this PC?? - or RC??)

[Elsie]

 

Maybe you should do some research on your own instead of swallowing whole what you are taught?

 

Seems this door swings both ways:

 

Some didn't even pay attention to their own TRANSLATIONS!

 

 

     

                          Smith                                                                        Young                                                                         Taylor                                                            Pratt

 

 

   

                      Snow                                                           Kimball                                    Woodruff

 

 

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THE BOOK OF JACOB
THE BROTHER OF NEPHI

CHAPTER 2

 

  24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
  25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
  26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
  27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
  28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
  29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
  30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
  31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
  32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.

 

 

[Elsie]

They will, however, forbid a Mormon from attending the baptism of a grandchild in a Catholic Church - real Christian of them

You have no proof of this accusation you make.

[Elsie]

LOL, good question?

The answer is in the Book; and yes - it IS an open book test!

[Elsie]

NOw why would they disagree with such an untruth? Is it because of how they believe in Jesus - for example, from their web site at

lds.org

from their creed:

 

Articles of Faith

The Articles of Faith outline 13 basic points of belief of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The Prophet Joseph Smith first wrote them in a letter to John Wentworth, a newspaper editor, in response to Mr. Wentworth's request to know what members of the Church believed. They were subsequently published in Church periodicals. They are now regarded as scripture and included in the Pearl of Great Price.

 

 

 

THE ARTICLES OF FAITH
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535—541

 

 

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
   
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
   
3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
   
4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
   
5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
   
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
   
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
   
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
   
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
   
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
    
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
    
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
    
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith

 

 

[Elsie]

Tell you what I have never heard from a Mormon.

I have NEVER heard them claim that Catholics or Baptists or any other church that professed to be Christians, were not.

 

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There Are Only Two Churches

 

In 1 Nephi 14:10 we read this passage in the Book of Mormon, but it is difficult for many to understand. 
I am pondering it this morning and wondering what it means. 
Does it relate in any way to political campaigns in general? 
Does it relate in any way to the campaign currently going on in the United States...

  10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.

At the official Church website, in the Guide to the Scriptures it says this:

The church of the devil: Every evil and worldly organization on earth that perverts the pure and perfect gospel and fights against the Lamb of God.

In Mormon Doctrine by Bruce R. McConkie - this is what he says:

Church of the Devil

See APOSTASY, BABYLON, DEVIL, KINGDOM OF THE DEVIL, SECOND COMING OF CHRIST, WORLD. The titles church of the devil and great and abominable church are used to identify all churches or organizations of whatever name or nature — whether political, philosophical, educational, economic social, fraternal, civic, or religious — which are designed to take men on a course that leads away from God and his laws and thus from salvation in the kingdom of God.

Salvation is in Christ, is revealed by him from age to age, and is available only to those who keep his commandments and obey his ordinances. These commandments are taught in, and these ordinances are administered by, his Church. There is no salvation outside this one true Church, the Church of Jesus Christ. There is one Christ, one Church, one gospel, one plan of salvation, one set of saving ordinances, one group of legal administrators, “One Lord, one faith, one baptism.” (Eph. 4:5.)

Any church or organization of any kind whatever which satisfies the innate religious longings of man and keeps him from coming to the saving truths of Christ and his gospel is therefore not of God.

Hence we find our Lord saying, “He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.” (Matt. 12:30.) And hence we find Alma inviting the wicked to repent and join the true Church of Christ and become the sheep of the Good Shepherd. “And now if ye are not the sheep of the good shepherd of what fold are ye?” he asks. “Behold, I say unto you, that the devil is your shepherd and ye are of his fold; and now, who can deny this? Behold, I say unto you, whosoever denieth this is a liar and a child of the devil.” (Alma 5:39; Jos. Smith 2:19.)

Iniquitous conditions in the various branches of the great and abominable church in the last days are powerfully described in the Book of Mormon. (2 Ne. 28; Morm. 8:28, 32-33, 36-38; D. & C. 10:56.) Nephi saw the “church which is most abominable above all other churches” in vision. He “saw the devil that he was the foundation of it”; and also the murders, wealth, harlotry, persecutions, and evil desires that are part of this organization. (1 Ne. 13:1-10.)

He saw that this church took away from the gospel of the Lamb many covenants and many plain and precious parts; that it perverted the right ways of the Lord; that it deleted many teachings from the Bible; that it was “the mother of harlots”; and finally that the Lord would again restore the gospel of salvation. (1 Ne. 13:24-42.)

Similar visions were given to John as recorded in the 17th and 18th chapter’s of Revelation. He saw this evil church as a whole ruling over peoples, multitudes, nations and tongues; as being full of blasphemy abominations, filthiness, and fornication; as having the name, “MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH”; as drunken with the blood of the saints; as revelling in wealth and the delicacies of the earth; as making merchandise of all costly items and of “slaves, and souls of men.” And then John, as did Nephi, saw the fall and utter destruction of this great church whose foundation is the devil.

In this world of carnality and sensuousness, the great and abominable church will continue its destructive course. But there will be an eventual future day when evil shall end, “and the great and abominable church, which is the whore of all the earth, shall be cast down by devouring fire.” (D. & C. 29:21; Ezek. 38; 39; 1 Ne. 22:23; Rev. 18.) Before that day, however, desolations will sweep through the earth and the various branches of the great and abominable church “shall war among themselves, and the sword of their own hands shall fall upon their own heads, and they shall be drunken with their own blood.” (1 Ne. 22:13-14; 14:3.)

The resurrected Christ gave to the Nephites this test whereby they might distinguish the true Church from any other: 1. It would be called in his name, for “how be it my church save it be called in my name?” he said. 2. It would be built upon his gospel, that is, the eternal plan of salvation with all its saving powers and graces would be had in it. 3. The Father would show forth his works in it, meaning that miracles, righteousness, and every good fruit would abound in it. 4. It would not be hewn down and cast into the fire as must surely come to pass with the great and abominable church. “If it be not built upon my gospel, and is built upon the works of men, or upon the works of the devil, verily I say unto you they have joy in their works for a season, and by and by the end cometh, and they are hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence there is no return.” (3 Ne. 27:4-12.)

I testify that these are true teachings. We are living in the last days. Many of the organizations that influence our lives are from evil. They are part of this great, evil church. We need to be aware of this as we work to promote the various political parties that are vying for power here in the United States during this campaign. Which of these organizations is going to take this nation toward the light? Which of them is going to drag us down? Or are they both going to drag us down? And if so, what should we do about it? The voters of the USA are not without power, are they? To what church do we belong?

[Elsie]

If they choose to have the ceremony performed inside a temple, which has requirements for participation, then only those who meet those requirements may enter the temple.

And what might these 'requirements' be?

[Elsie]

... because of his POW treatment for 7 years McCain has a 30 times greater chance of dying within the next 9 months ...

What???

Huh?

[Elsie]

I have a copy - he simply cut and pasted - with literal scissors and paste

Dang!

He pre-dated Joseph Smith!

[Elsie]

I find it helpful, sometimes, for remembering what Jesus said and taught, without all the 'explanations' of what he said and taught, as interpreted and/or expounded upon by others.

Sometimes even JESUS had to go back and 'explain' what He taught!

[Elsie]

That is true, I think some of these people will drive many Mormons away from the republicans for years.

To where?