Posted on 02/06/2008 6:19:32 PM PST by klimeckg
Thomas Paine and the Age of Reason
Thomas Paine is sometimes grouped with the Founding Fathers. Your daily newspaper might reinforce this view with editorials like this:
Franklin, Washington, Jefferson, Paine and most of our other patriarchs were at best deists, believing in the unmoved mover of Aristotle, but not the God of the Old and New Testaments.[1]
It would be difficult to name a single one of the Founding Fathers who approved of Paine's Age of Reason, his famous tract attacking religion in general and evangelical Christianity in particular. Even less-than-evangelicals like Benjamin Franklin and the "Unitarians" all denounced Paine's book.
Before Paine published his Age of Reason, he sent a manuscript copy to Benjamin Franklin, seeking his thoughts. Notice Franklin's strong and succinct reply, and keep in mind that those on all sides of the religion question would concede Franklin to be one of the least religious Founders:
I have read your manuscript with some attention. By the argument it contains against a particular Providence, though you allow a general Providence, you strike at the foundations of all religion. For without the belief of a Providence that takes cognizance of, guards, and guides, and may favor particular persons, there is no motive to worship a Deity, to fear his displeasure, or to pray for his protection. I will not enter into any discussion of your principles, though you seem to desire it. At present I shall only give you my opinion that . . . the consequence of printing this piece will be a great deal of odium drawn upon yourself, mischief to you, and no benefit to others. He that spits into the wind, spits in his own face. But were you to succeed, do you imagine any good would be done by it? . . .
(Excerpt) Read more at members.aol.com ...
“The Oneida Community was a utopian commune founded by John Humphrey Noyes in 1848 in Oneida, New York.”
They believed in communal marriages (the hippies called it ‘free love’)and now are a silverware company.
The founders were not Deists.
Big difference, though, the Moslems will kill you for such things; the Mormons dont'.
It doesn't belong on your list.
More recently the Supreme Court has ruled that the Oneida are entitled to a big chunk of New York.
Hey, hedgetrimmer, the Oneida (all of whom are among the Founding Fathers) were NOT Trinitarians ~ I can tell you that. Pleasant Lake didn’t get his act together until after the Revolution anyway.
It may have started that way, but towards the end, was it really part of the Disciples of Christ?
“It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them. For the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to be much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist.”
Franklin
So your statement should be “The majority of the founders were not Deists.” in the interest of accuracy.
My MY - your prejudice - and ignorance - just leaked out.
Jim owned the church ~ he relocated the congregation to San Francisco. He got tired of that and moved the same distance San Fran is from Naptown (in terms of degrees) to a point East of Naptown in Guiana.
This balancing of distance stuff is pretty typical of schizophrenia.
He then proved they were all a little nuts by serving them up poison in a purple fruit drink NOT CALLED "Kool Aid".
Jim Jones was invited by our own minister, Mr. Keppel, to come and speak/visit a couple of times. There's always this Christian Church crowd of dogooders who want to help smarmy people like Jones by opening up the church treasury for them.
They have no sense in these matters.
I am not a Mormon. Whether you like to admit it or not, the Hucksters have been waging a full out Jihad against Romney and Mormonism on FreeRepublic. I did have someone post to me that a vote for Romney is a vote for Satan. That’s what prompted the witch hunt analogy.
Unification Church would be the odd man out in that list.
“Franklin, Washington, Jefferson, Paine and most of our other patriarchs were at best deists, believing in the unmoved mover of Aristotle, but not the God of the Old and New Testaments.”
Rubbish. M E Bradford researched the personal papers of perhaps a hundred Founding Fathers for his book “A Worthy Company” and the number of deists is something like three. Washington certainly wasn’t one of them, he was a practicing member of an Episcopal congregation his entire life.
BTW, if I felt all that beat up because some fundie sent me an email telling me that mine was a vote for Satan, I'd shrug it off ~ unless, of course, it was a vote for Satan and I didn't want anyone to know that.
So, which is it? Meaningless, or the real thing.
It’s neither, it’s nuts and I don’t want to be associated with that kind of mean spirited political attack on someone’s religion.
The fact is that the Hucksters attacked Romney for a lot more than his religion, but they forgave Huckabee the same sins. My only guess is that because Huckabee was a one time Baptist minister, we are supposed to believe him when he says that he changed his mind.
You know, I was just thinking, my brother in law’s father was a former Baptist minister and a flasher. Being a Baptist minister doesn’t really mean much. My brother in law’s father opposed abortion, too.
The deceased most often are related to the members submitting the names for temple work.
You’ve not met the burden of proof in your claim they are a cult. I told you two reasons why they can’t be. Great rebuttal.
Not.
When the group that is being called a cult is not allowed to disagree based on historical precedence rather than based on their own beliefs, then they are the ones who are being flamed. Groups have a right to speak out when they feel they are being maligned. I wasn’t the one calling the LDS church a cult, I was merely pointing out how it is false.
The OP questions whether it is Romney’s religion that has caused him problems in the south with the voters. There is no hijacking being done on my part as I am not the one who questioned the legitimacy of his religion.
My first choice in this primary was Thompson. He ran an uninspired campaign. I turned to Romney once it became clear to me he was the best candidate. I am not upset with Huckabee and McCain in working together to get rid of who they think is their closest competitor. That is politics. But I don’t respect either one of them and won’t vote for a McCain/Huckabee ticket under any circumstances.
CULT:.......
Morman
Peoples Temple
Unification Church
Baptists
One of the above doesn’t belong in the grouping.
The others bear striking similiarities in their teachings, treatment of families, and organization.
___________________________________________________
I didn’t realize that Baptist ostracized their family members who leave the Baptist fold. I’ve seen that happen in many religions. It certainly limited to “cults.” It definitely isn’t a teaching or practice in the LDS faith to reject family over faith. Whether it is because a family member leaves the LDS church or join the LDS church and leave their own family.
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