Posted on 09/03/2007 5:31:19 PM PDT by Creationist
In the opening of any book today that involves origins, dinosaurs, ECT. you can always expect to see the term billions of years as they know for a fact. Like some one was there to record this event.
Well here is another fine example of the evolutionist religious belief.
From the book Natural Wonders of the World, by P.J. Banyard, Page 6
Once there was nothing. There was no space and there was no time. (Now you will have to understand this if there is nothing the laws of conservation of energy state you can not create or destroy matter, in short nothing can not make something. This is a religious belief on the evolutionist part that this can happen.)(Here is the exciting part)Then,between 13 and 18 billion years ago, all the primeval matter which makes up the universe (here it comes)burst out from another dimension and exploded.
So no one was there to record when the event happend thats why they can not narrow down the time line, but hey the other dimension thing is cool.
They try to say my religious belief hinders my ability to discern science. Well you have a bigger faith based religion then I do. I have a God who told man how he did it (not all of the finer details) but that he did it. And you on the other hand have a belief system based upon interpretation of visible evidence today, with the assumed backward winding of the process to nothing exploding out of another dimension wow. All praise the mighty nothing.
The book is full of evolutionary statements that start off with the unsure words like; might have, could have, we think, seems to, and then finish as though they have the facts to prove their statements.
No one can prove 100% that the Bible is how the universe and all living things got here or that The Big Nothing From Another Dimension created the universe and all living beings.
But you can rest assured that science proves the Bible with out the use of smoke and mirrors more that the ever changing theory of evolution does.
Then,between 13 and 18 billion years ago, all the primeval matter which makes up the universe (here it comes)burst out from another dimension and exploded.
So this mysterious stuff named singularity, came from somewhere, but no one knows where. No one knows how long it sat around before it expanded nor why it expanded. If all the matter of the entire universe were contained in singularity as claimed, it should have been the most massive black hole ever, that would have allowed nothing to escape. But it did and no one knows why it let go if it was being held together.
So it expanded in a trillion trillionth of a second to fill all of known space which means it traveled at a speed far greater than the speed of light, which everyone knows is impossible. Except that minor complication is taken care of by declaring that space can expand at a speed exceeding the speed of light.
Then it established its own laws which it promptly violated by coalescing into highly organized and predictable patterns.
And creationists get laughed at because they believe God did it?
Now, considering that this cannot be observed, tested in the lab or falsified, these speculations about the origin of the universe are called *science* by those in the scientific community. Scientists to indeed demonstrate great faith in their creation account especially considering they have nothing but speculation to back it up.
“Well here is another fine example of the evolutionist religious belief ... But you can rest assured that science proves the Bible with out the use of smoke and mirrors more that the ever changing theory of evolution does.”
This just serves to illustrate your naive bigotry and ignorance, since evolution and all science is based on empiricism, the constant testing and evaluating of data. As more discoveries are made, theories are refined and sometimes even abandoned. That is why the concept of evolution changes over time. With evolution, it is geology, especially radiometric dating and the underlying laws of physics, that support evolution, that is, what we observe in the geologic record. This is not religion.
What is truly irritating about you creationist types, is how you force the eternal and everlasting God into a tiny box. For you, God creates the universe in seven days, then spends the rest of eternity doing nothing! How utterly selfish and primitive!
My God, on the other hand, did not stop after seven days. With His eternal glory and imagination, he is still creating and one of the ways He manifests his power is through what the enlightened perceive as evolution.
Consider this. God created everything in the universe, including the laws of physics. It is the mathematics of physics that support radiometric dating and the other scientific disciplines that support evolution.
To deny evolution is to deny the science and physics that support it - and to deny the laws of physics is to deny the existence of God.
I’m not sure what you mean when you say science. Each man (normal man) is made to desire the truth. Nobody wants lies or errors. What you say is how science is supposed to work, but it’s not always so. History is replete with examples of available evidence which defies current theory (at the time) which is ignored or changed, to support whatever current theory is popular, for a whole host of reasons.
My point is that if religion and science are at odds over a point, more investigation is required in both fields. Science is supposed to be based upon verifiable facts which can be repeated and confirmed. Religion, or faith, if you will, is based upon revelation in many cases, but is confirmed by philosophy and theology. Some of the thought can be confirmed with confidence via logic. Now, logic is not alien to science. Some things in philosophy flow from first assumptions, and are as true as any scientific fact, assuming man can reason. If man can’t reason, science is lost, also.
This was begun by a quote from a “scientist,” who said that everything came from another dimension and just appeared. The point I was making is that what he said has nothing to do with science, and he was trying to use his degree in science to give weight to an idea that has nothing to do with the field of which he has his degree.
As far as revising theories to fit new evidence, that as it should be. The problems arise when the theories are revised to fit new theories which have no scientific evidence, but rather philosophical leanings, and in this case, the popular idea that God does not exist. The idea of God is a philosophical certainty, according to courses I took on college, aside from various religions. How that is taken from there matters to most of us, but for this discussion, matters little. The whole argument here is that somehow, the universe exists without the Creating God, but with the accident god.
What I’m getting at is that there is a bias in the “scientific community,” now, that will only accept evidence that excludes the Creator God. Gravity is a scientific fact. We may not understand it, but we can predict it, we can mathematically describe it, and we can repeat all the experiments we want to confirm it. That is true. The problems arise when some “scientist” says the law of gravity was NOT made by the Creating God.
The scientist, you see, is well equipped and an expert at testing the details of gravity, but when he declares where the law came from, he’s completely out of his field of expertise. -Glenn
I think you're the one putting God into a box here. Try reading the Bible, because if that's your idea of God doing nothing, then you're simply an idiot, and there's no other way to put it.
read later
“I think you’re the one putting God into a box here.”
What someone like you “thinks” isn’t important to me.
“Try reading the Bible, because if that’s your idea of God doing nothing ...”
What makes YOU think I don’t? Your self-righteous arrogance is typical of creationists.
Please at least pretend to be intelligent and try get your story right. I didn’t write of God doing nothing. What I said was that our eternal God is still showing his imagination and glory by continuing to create. We see this here on earth via evolution, which is supported by the laws of physics that God created ... but apparently YOU, in your self-absorbed, holier-than-thou, self righteousness, refuse to see this even though it is right in front of your face.
“then you’re simply an idiot, and there’s no other way to put it.”
Sorry to burst your bubble again, but there are plenty of ways to put “it,” coward.
“If evolution is based upon empiricism, where is your licken or chizard?”
Hey, if you want to play stupid, go ahead. Dig your hole and let the rest of the world pass you and the others of your sort by. See what I care.
Thanks for disparaging me without as much as a courtesy ping!
As for science, what makes you think your opinion has any validity? You and your fellow creationists berate those few scientists who intrude into the realm of religion, but you don't hesitate to intrude into the world of science with your religious beliefs.
Your religious belief is of a different order than scientific evidence. If you want to continue to trash science, then be prepared to come up with scientific evidence, not the junk science and creation "science" found on creationist websites.
If all you have is religious belief, you are doing no different than the few scientists who creationists disparage for their claims regarding metaphysics and religion.
You simply can't have it both ways.
If you’re going to disprove evolution, I hope you can do better for a source than a 25 year old children’s book.
You really are an idiot, aren't you. I even quoted it for you. Apparently you don't even understand the correlations of your own propositions, but then again, why would you, given the obvious...
I may be a lot of things, sparky, but coward certainly isn't one of them, especially on a debating forum. I used to eat guys like you for breakfast, and believe me, I wouldn't hesitate to put my membership on the line to bitch slap a punk like you in public.
So go ahead...piss me off.
Actually that statement was true as well
In FR the Treaty of Westphalia is fully in force so take your "your religion" BS back where it came from and stuff it up your ying-yang, OK!
They might as well have started that with “In the beginning...”
Your little universe filled with little else than predistination and concise doctrines surrounding the elect should be easily described.
Do so.
Falling down is a fact.
Gravity is an explanation and a theory. And gravity is not well understood; in fact it is the least understood of the physical forces.
Science says nothing at all about the existence of God, but it can study the physical history of the universe, the earth, and life on earth.
St. Augustine understood that when science and religion differ on matters of natural history, science is going to win. He was commenting on the shape of the earth, but his comments are relevant to the structure of the solar system, whether evidence supports a global flood, and whether living things are related by descent.
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