Posted on 12/04/2006 6:10:06 PM PST by goldstategop
RUSH: John in Shreveport, Louisiana. Hello.
CALLER: Mr. Rush, don't you think you're being a hypocrite when you're not -- when you don't want the Iraqis to decide the problems themselves, especially since Abraham Lincoln took two -- two generals named Lincoln [sic--Grant] and Sherman who were responsible for the deaths of 59,000 southern people? And since you hate Confederate heritage that much, don't you think that we should allow the people of Iraq to decide their own fate?
RUSH: (Laughing.) Gee. I hate Confederate heritage?
CALLER: No kidding.
RUSH: On the basis of what do you say that?
CALLER: Okay, allow me to quote you from 2001: "The American Civil War was the first conflict in human history to set a people free from the bondage of slavery." Your quote, sir.
RUSH: Yeah?
CALLER: And that's not --
RUSH: Well, the point is, we fought --
CALLER: -- power --
RUSH: Are we going to have this argument, Steve?
CALLER: Yes, sir, we are, if you've got the nerve to hold it!
RUSH: I'll have this argument with you any time you want. I've been hearing from you guys since I started this show. I know, it's about states' rights, it was about freedom; it was about independence. But it was about preserving the union -- and Abraham Lincoln knew that you couldn't preserve an America with the institutions defined by our Constitution if one man was allowed to own another.
CALLER: Well, you could not preserve the Constitution as long as you could override it by military power and invasion.
RUSH: Well, there was the preservation of the union that was the number one --
CALLER: How about the preservation of the Constitution, shouldn't that be predominant?
RUSH: Look, you still want to secede? What's your solution?
CALLER: We have no choice, we're under occupation now. The thing about it is you still have to lie about Abraham Lincoln to prove your, to make your point.
RUSH: I'm not lying about Abraham Lincoln. What do you mean, you're still under occupation?
CALLER: Put it this way. The South was not allowed to vote its own way; we're not going to allow Iraq to vote its own government, either.
RUSH: But we did.
CALLER: Do you think we're really abiding by that? What they voted for, we're trying to subvert it by military occupation. No difference than what they did here for 12 years in Louisiana. You don't think we don't see that? You don't think we don't see you as a hypocrite for what you say about, oh, yeah, preserve the union, but let's never mind, let's take away the vote from those who are the voting citizens --
RUSH: I cannot believe this!
CALLER: -- Constitution!
RUSH: I can't believe this. You are taking out your frustrations at having lost the Civil War on me and claiming I'm a hypocrite because of my stance on the Iraq war?
CALLER: Yes, sir.
RUSH: Which I don't even think you know what it is.
CALLER: I don't think you know -- I don't think you know who Abraham Lincoln was.
RUSH: I certainly know who Abraham Lincoln was. He's one of the greatest presidents in the history of the country.
CALLER: Who said that --
RUSH: And it wasn't because he defeated the south. It was because he preserved the union.
CALLER: He preserved the union by trampling the Constitution!
RUSH: He did not trample the Constitution. He suspended habeas corpus. He did do some things I wish Bush would do.
CALLER: Like kill 59,000 innocent civilians?
RUSH: Are you talking about Sherman's march through Atlanta?
CALLER: And -- and -- and Grant's shelling the city of Vicksburg. Hello?
RUSH: It won the war, didn't it? You ever heard of Gettysburg? It won the war and that was the objective. I'll tell you what I wish Bush would do that Lincoln did. Take all these anti-war agitators and send 'em to Canada. Send the National Guard in there. Send Harry Reid over to Baghdad if he's going to be so socially --
CALLER: Like that Ohio Congressman Vallandigham, huh?
RUSH: Absolutely, like that Ohio congressman, that Democrat that was snatched out of his house and sent down to Jefferson Davis, who also didn't want him.
CALLER: Well, at least I got you to acknowledge that.
RUSH: Acknowledge what?
CALLER: Well, the fact that Lincoln did have his secret police who went into people's houses, pulled them out in the middle of the night, and had them -- and had them --
RUSH: You know what? I hope before you die you learn to thank God for Abraham Lincoln.
CALLER: I hope before you die you learn what a racist and a bigot and a power-hungry maniac he was.
RUSH: I'm the racist and the bigot?
CALLER: I didn't say you were. I said he was!
RUSH: Oh. Abraham Lincoln? How in the world you can call a guy who ended slavery a racist and a bigot? I have heard everything now. Everything, in 22 years of hosting this program, I have heard everything.
Yes, and the Democratic Party and the GOP have LONG Since switched places.
Speak for yourself. I am a Texan FIRST.
And besides the Vicksburg campaign, which was won by sheer determination, where did Grant show generalship?
He got lucky at Shiloh. He didn't even have control at Chattanooga. He sat on a stump and whittled in the Wilderness campaign, where Lee and Longstreet rolled BOTH of his flanks. His men lost the race to Spotsylvania, where they FAILED to to take advantage of splitting Lee's army at the muleshoe. Cold Harbor was a disgrace, and they let Petersburg SIT EMPTY for a whole day before Lee finally fortified it. And when Lee was getting hit hard at Five Forks, it was Sheridan, not Grant, who controlled the field.
Grant tactically lost almost every engagement with Lee, but unlike the generals before him, he kept going.
And in the Union slave states?
Please...."that particular individual" will be along soon enough to spew his posts.
And he NEVER pings me when he talks about me.
And I think that anyone who calls Lee that is a blooming IDIOT!
ping
A small yet insightful book written by Albert T. Bledsoe, A.M.,LL.D. in 1915 identifies many of the problems that were inherent in the US Constitution and how they were made during the formation of that document. Was Secession a Constitutional Right Previous to the War of 1861-65? was the name of the book. Bledsoe spent the entire war years studying the Constitution (the only other copy at that time available to him) in England and was prepared to take the US to court had they tried anyone for treason after the war. Chase knew that if he were to face Bledsoe in court with respect to accusing anyone of treason he would likely not be the winner. Bledsoe was the President of Ole' Miss for many years after the war.
Thanks for posting this, it is the funniest thing I've read on FR in ages!
I wonder what that Dixie Wanker's freepname is?
HORSEHOCKEY!
And I consider you to be the most mis-informed Freeper on the board.
Since he was such a traitor, how do you reconcile his being honored by both Northern and Southern governments in terms of naming buildings, schools, and monuments for him? How do you reconcile his place in history as a revered leader by both Northen, European and Southern historians?
I'll tell you why. You are a post-modern neophyte with a non-education and a sliver of understanding of history.
It isn't hard to spot the like.
They study Sherman somewhat less so."
They may study the tactics of Lee and Jackson.
But the strategy of Sherman was inspired brillance, even if he didn't think so. The fall of Atlanta was IMO the real turning point of the conflict.
I agree with B.H. Liddell Hart that Sherman was the first "Modern General." He's easily my favorite figure of the War.
See also "The Soul of Battle" by Vicor Davis Hanson for an interesting latter day take on the March to the Sea.
Yes.....and they're called Republicans and 'true conservatives'. Those that would advocate the central government to step into their moral issues.
From the Confederate Constitution (written by people who don't care all that much about slavery):
Article 1 Section 9.4: 4. No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed.
Article 4 Section 2.1: The citizens of each State shall be entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizens in the several States; and shall have the right of transit and sojourn in any State of this Confederacy, with their slaves and other property; and the right of property in said slaves shall not be thereby impaired.
Article 4 Section 2.3: No slave or other person held to service or labor in any State or Territory of the Confederate States, under the laws thereof, escaping or lawfully carried into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor; but shall be delivered up on claim of the party to whom such slave belongs; or to whom such service or labor may be due.
Article 4 Section 3.3: The Confederate States may acquire new territory; and Congress shall have power to legislate and provide governments for the inhabitants of all territory belonging to the Confederate States, lying without the limits of the several Sates; and may permit them, at such times, and in such manner as it may by law provide, to form States to be admitted into the Confederacy. In all such territory the institution of negro slavery, as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be recognized and protected by Congress and by the Territorial government; and the inhabitants of the several Confederate States and Territories shall have the right to take to such Territory any slaves lawfully held by them in any of the States or Territories of the Confederate States.
Yeah, Stalin was pretty effective, too...I'm sure he's a great hero of yours.
Sherman understood what was to become the horror of modern total warfare more than anyone else at the time. He would have been right at home in the 20th Century.
Lee made up with audacity and maneuver what he lacked in firepower, Chancellorsville being perhaps the greatest example. You have to wonder how Gettysburg would have developed had Jackson lived to command Ewell's troops. I have the idea that on the evening of the first day Jackson would have been sitting atop Cemetary Ridge, something Ewell failed to do. Longstreet would have been far happier reprising his role from Fredericksburg rather than assaulting an entrenched federal army.
So do I. And we both disagree with A. Lincoln and most of the Northern citizenry which existed in 1861.
see post 135 XD
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