Posted on 10/11/2002 9:02:01 PM PDT by gore3000
I think history shows it to be true. Look at what has been going on in Africa since independence. The numerous amounts of mass murders that have occurred just about everywhere there. Look at the actions of Communist governments, at the actions of Nazism, at the actions ot the French revolutionaries, at the actions of the savage hordes from Asia, at the actions of the followers of the evil prophet Mohammed. Look at the total disregard for life shown by all the above and you will have your proof.
The front page of above site by R.J. Rummel Freedom: Democracy, Peace; Power: Democide, War makes the telling point that "Power kills; absolute power kills absolutely." He clearly demonstrates through tons of evidence that philosophical theories which denigrate life have the consequence of destroying life.
Consider the evils the creationoids -- in their supreme ignorance -- attribute to Darwin's work: communism, racism, eugenics, Hitler, Stalin, etc. You've already pointed out the example of the Spartans and eugenics. We've long been showing that Stalin opposed Darwinian teaching. And I've recently given clear authority (in Mein Kampf itself) that Hitler was a creationist.
As for racism, one must be a genuine moron not to realize that it's as old as humanity. Indeed, if you want to deal in historic sequences as if they were cause and effect, we should consider that Darwin's scientific career was remarkably timed to coincide with the English and American drive to end slavery and ultimately to end the legalized institution of racism. Amazing what scientific enlightenment will do.
And then there's communism. I've previously given examples of pre-Darwinian communism, from the Spartans (what a useful group!) to the Mayflower passengers. Notwithstanding all these clear historical examples, the creationoids will continue to repeat their mantra -- thus demonstrating not only their educational deficiencies, but their intellectual and ethical deficiencies as well.
Still misrepresenting my statements eh? Must be that you and your evolutionist friends cannot refute the challenge I have posed to you many times to disprove the following statement:
I have posted some of the major ones which support the above: Mendellian genetics, DNA, and the complexity of the human genome. If you wish to refute my statement not your misrepresentation of it, you are welcome to do so. I know however that you will not, because my statement is accurate. In fact, in the article above you will see much scientific evidence disproving evolution. I note that you and your friends are not even attempting to discuss it.
Nobody is saying that Darwin invented eugenics. What is being said is that Darwin was a promoter of and tried to give scientific legitimacy to that despicable practice. It should also be noted that like the German 'master race' which Hitler was trying to construct with his eugenistic practices, the Spartan 'master race' was defeated by those who did not indulge in such barbarism. So much for Darwin and the benefits of eugenics.
You point to Stalin as if he was the only Communist that ever lived. Communism did and still promotes materialistic evolution. Stalin's attack on Darwinism was the passing fancy of an insane man who killed not just Darwinians, but religious people. A man who killed not only those of other nationalities, but his own Georgian people. A man who killed not only those opposing Communism, but also his own Communist friends who fought side by side with him in establishing that atheistic doctrine on his nation.
Indeed, the idea of "the children of Ham" was used to justify slavery for centuries before Darwin was born.
The article on 'Creationist Nonsense' by the editor of Scientific American has been thoroughly refuted in 15 ANSWERS TO JOHN RENNIE AND SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN’S NONSENSE . Rennie's article is a shamefully UNscientific diatribe on opposition to evolution. It shows to what extent the ideologues of evolution have to go to in order to support their faith. They have to totally discredited themselves to do so.
You constantly reiterate your point that civilisation has gone downhill due to atheism, equating religion's utility with its truthfulness, and ignoring my point (e.g., Santa Claus may be a useful myth for keeping children nice, but that does not make Santa real). If you propose that any version of science and prehistory that is useful must also be true, please do so explicitly, else accept that your arguments about the decline of civilisation have nothing to do with the truth or falsity of evolution.
Further, you have continually refused to propose any specific Creationist version of prehistory, knowing, I suspect, that there is no possible such Creationist version which is not many times more problematic than the reigning evolutionary paradigm.
I kick myself for wasting my time in the belief that you actually might care to debate the nature of prehistorical reality, as opposed to what you want to be true, or what some authority (Newton, the Bible) stated is true. If I do so any longer, it is not in the hope of having an actual debate with you Creationists, who appear to be postmodernist nihilists (the truth is whatever you want it to be), but so that those in the middle will not be swayed by an absence of a response to your continuing idiocy.
After I mentioned that Stalin (who used to be a big creationoid poster-boy) was opposed to Darwin's teachings, a certain blue-posting creationoid said this:
You point to Stalin as if he was the only Communist that ever lived. Communism did and still promotes materialistic evolution. Stalin's attack on Darwinism was the passing fancy of an insane man who killed not just Darwinians, but religious people. A man who killed not only those of other nationalities, but his own Georgian people. A man who killed not only those opposing Communism, but also his own Communist friends who fought side by side with him in establishing that atheistic doctrine on his nation.How often in the past, when the creationoids would try to smear evolution by bringing up Hitler, did we say that Hitler was a nutcase, and that his occasional references to the struggle for survival prove nothing at all. Yet the creationoids continued to bring up Hitler, as if his crimes actually proved something about evolution. Now, however, they use the exact rebuttal we used, only this time they use it for Stalin. Intellectual dishonesty?
290 posted on 10/13/02 9:41 AM Eastern by gore3000
We should also mention that Hitler -- also a favorite poster-boy of the creationoids, is no longer mentioned much, now that he's been exposed as a creationist.
I agree with you that the website makes a compelling case that philosophical theories which denigrate life have the consequence of destroying life.
Hugs!
He has? I have been doing some reading on this and I haven't seen anything stating that he was a Creationist. Sure, from time to time he tossed a few quotes around to appease the religious folks. But remember, above all he was a liar and propaganist, telling people what they wanted to hear. And considering 90% of the people, just as they are now, were religious -- well, you figure it out. Here's an article that may help to clarify:
And an excerpt from that article: Dr. Bergman’s conclusion: “The evidence is very clear that Darwinian ideas had a tremendous impact on German thought and practice.... In fact, Darwinian ideas had a tremendous influence on causing WWII, the loss of 40 million lives, and the waste of about 6 trillion 1945 dollars. Firmly convinced that evolution was true, Hitler saw himself as the modern savior of mankind.... By breeding a superior race, the world would look upon him as the man who pulled humanity up to a higher level of evolution.”
Why someone would coin the greatest mass-murderer of modern times as a Creationist is beyond me. It truly shows just how far atheists will go in order to advance their pseudo-scientific theory. What a sad, sad world you people live in.
MM
IMHO, because the various sides are well settled on their points of view --- it is the Lurkers (general public, parents, school boards) who are the target audience to this and similar debates. In that regard, you may find VadeRetro and my ongoing discussion of methods helpful.
In the end, my prediction was and is that neither Young Earth Creationism nor Evolutionary Biology will win the hearts of the Lurkers - instead, Intelligent Design will win "hands down" because they know how to win.
The Intelligent Design debaters approach the conflict as if they were in a court of law. They never badger the witness, they embrace the good ideas of the opponent, they don't try to impress the jury with their superior credentials, they keep it simple and appeal to common sense.
The juror-Lurker is only half listening to what you are saying (especially if you are being technical) - but they are observing closely how you say it. The stronger, louder, faster and more angry the reply - the less weight they will give it, i.e. if counsel "protests too much" - what is he hiding?
Just my two cents ...
Why someone would coin the greatest mass-murderer of modern times as a Creationist is beyond me. It truly shows just how far atheists will go in order to advance their pseudo-scientific theory. What a sad, sad world you people live in.
A repeat of a prior posting, in case anyone missed it the first time:
Here's the rebuttal for all those creationists who keep blaming Darwin for the evils of Hitler. It turns out (verifiable by footnotes linked to the text of Mein Kampf), that ol' Adolph was a creationist.
Adolf Hitler's Religion.
Unlike the creationists who always raise the spectre of Hitler to bash evolution, I shall not play that game. It was an illogical argument when used against evolution (although that never stopped the creos from endlessly using it); and now it would be similarly illogical to use Hitler as an argument against creationism. However, when some whack-job of a creationist uses the Hitler ploy, this link is coming out of my archives and into your face.
For those who want a "better" source for the proposition that Adolf Hitler was a creationist:
"For God's will gave men their form, their essence and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's creation, the divine will."
Mein Kampf, by Adolf Hitler, Volume 2, Chapter 10.
Well said - nice job so far.
Oh, and welcome to the funhouse.
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