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To: AntiGuv
Indeed, one could claim the Spartans created the concepts of Eugenics and Master Race more than 2300 years ago. Spartan children deemed inferior were "exposed" so their blood would not weaken the Spartan race. Unfortunately, to a small fundamentalist cabal on these threads eugenics is a completely 20th-century, Darwinian-based philosophy. To me such beliefs are indicative of the depth of their educations.
284 posted on 10/13/2002 5:55:24 AM PDT by Junior
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To: Junior; betty boop
Unfortunately, to a small fundamentalist cabal on these threads eugenics is a completely 20th-century, Darwinian-based philosophy. To me such beliefs are indicative of the depth of their educations.

Consider the evils the creationoids -- in their supreme ignorance -- attribute to Darwin's work: communism, racism, eugenics, Hitler, Stalin, etc. You've already pointed out the example of the Spartans and eugenics. We've long been showing that Stalin opposed Darwinian teaching. And I've recently given clear authority (in Mein Kampf itself) that Hitler was a creationist.

As for racism, one must be a genuine moron not to realize that it's as old as humanity. Indeed, if you want to deal in historic sequences as if they were cause and effect, we should consider that Darwin's scientific career was remarkably timed to coincide with the English and American drive to end slavery and ultimately to end the legalized institution of racism. Amazing what scientific enlightenment will do.

And then there's communism. I've previously given examples of pre-Darwinian communism, from the Spartans (what a useful group!) to the Mayflower passengers. Notwithstanding all these clear historical examples, the creationoids will continue to repeat their mantra -- thus demonstrating not only their educational deficiencies, but their intellectual and ethical deficiencies as well.

287 posted on 10/13/2002 6:11:23 AM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: Junior
Unfortunately, to a small fundamentalist cabal on these threads eugenics is a completely 20th-century, Darwinian-based philosophy.

Nobody is saying that Darwin invented eugenics. What is being said is that Darwin was a promoter of and tried to give scientific legitimacy to that despicable practice. It should also be noted that like the German 'master race' which Hitler was trying to construct with his eugenistic practices, the Spartan 'master race' was defeated by those who did not indulge in such barbarism. So much for Darwin and the benefits of eugenics.

289 posted on 10/13/2002 6:35:02 AM PDT by gore3000
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To: Junior; PatrickHenry; VadeRetro; gore3000; Phaedrus; Alamo-Girl
Indeed, one could claim the Spartans created the concepts of Eugenics and Master Race more than 2300 years ago. Spartan children deemed inferior were "exposed" so their blood would not weaken the Spartan race. Unfortunately, to a small fundamentalist cabal on these threads eugenics is a completely 20th-century, Darwinian-based philosophy. To me such beliefs are indicative of the depth of their educations.

Of course we know, Junior, that infant exposure was a fairly common practice in the ancient world, and not just in the case of the Spartans. And not just for reasons of eugenics, but also for sex-selection and economic reasons. Not even to mention the practice of infant sacrifice.

But in the long course of the historical and cultural evolution of mankind, Western civilization arguably has tried to move away from such evil practices, with notable success. Among other things, it has ended slavery; it has promoted religious tolerance and human rights; it has worked to "civilize" warfare so as to spare non-combatants; it has promulgated mass education; etc., etc.

But then, comes along in the nineteenth century a thoroughly atavistic work entitled The Descent of Man. If anything, this book can be fairly understood as a recursion to a more primitive state of mind. IMHO it does not represent an evolution of human consciousness, but a devolution, a recursion, a “throwback” to a more savage past. Clearly it legitimates the practice of eugenics. And when you boil it all down, there’s not a dime’s worth of difference between the practice of eugenics and “ethnic cleansing.”

Now Hitler was arguably a “primitive,” too, in his habits of mind. And I am mindful that he commonly referred to the Jews as “apes” – as a line of special development less fit and therefore unworthy to survive. Forced sterilization of “undesirables,” or their outright liquidation (as in the case of Jews, Poles, Gypsies, etc.), was all the rage with Hitler.

Now from whence do you suppose he most likely got these ideas? From Sparta? Or from Darwin? Or to put it another way, of the two, which is more likely to justify what Hitler did, in his own mind?

334 posted on 10/13/2002 11:32:41 AM PDT by betty boop
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