Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.
In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:
Our discussion has been light:
It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog
However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB
Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr
Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog
Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB
Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed
To the very philosophical:
…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla
To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…
…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB
Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog
…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1
Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed
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Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom
…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253
Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed
So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.
Have I mentioned lately that I hate you, Jen? ;-)
I'm at 27,628 now. Behind, but I'm into the heart of the story now, which makes it easier. I should still be able to do this, but I'm going to pretty much use all the time up until the last day.
Can't post any daily for today because I can't get FTP to work right now, for some reason. I'll try again tomorrow evening.
Folks must be busy tonight, there's been almost no chatter! I'm heading to bed; got to get more sleep than I got last night! We start Choir rehearsal for Midnight Mass in a couple of weeks and I don't want to start the congestion thing from not getting enough rest!!
Now available on the alt.binaries.sounds.mp3.soundtracks newsgroup...
G'nad is right on with the placement of the arrows, but I think I figured out when the horn was split.
After the 2nd arrow, Boromir drops to his knees. Close up of a sweaty, exhausted, dying Boromir. He is attacked. He rises up. Camera catches him mid-chest and up. He does battle with an Urak Hai. The third arrow catches him. Then, we see long shot of Boromir with the horn split.
Even though we don't see the result of the battle with the last Urak Hai because of the camera angle, the horn is split during this battle. Also because of the camera angle, we never see where the Urak Hai's sword goes, etc.
The third angle could have split it... but I don't think so. I think it was the last sword play Boromir has with the Urak Hai. When the third arrow hits him, Boromir could not stand back up. Bleeding out, he can't go on.
That's what I think... but I think it is ambiguous at best.
The fact that you know all that, I find very impressive. just a matter of anatomy and wound characteristics... of course when you add in the human factor, anything's possible...
A bodkin tipped arrow would not slice a horn like that... I'm thinkin' sword stroke (obvious alternative)... there was that kind of odd bullwhip sound during Boromir's dispatching of the last Uruk... anyone else catch that?...
Allow me one comment on Legolas' skills... while I am not questioning the accuracy or speed portrayed, I was just a little bothered by the effects of his arrows... an arrow is not a bullet, and possesses no where near the immediate lethality... an arrow kills through hemorrhage, and a broadhead is geared toward causing maximum blood loss quickly... Even with a heart shot, double lung hit or a hit that severs a major artery, a mature deer still has about 30 secondsto live and major adrenaline to push him...
the fact that he's using bodkin tipped arrows means his targets would die even more slowly...While a head or a heartshot would stop a man (orc) in his tracks due to shock , a hit anywhere else but the spine would not drop a man, much less a Uruk (IMO) in his tracks... kill him, yes... eventually...
the scene of Legolas' killing spree makes my point nicely... a recurve bow does not possess the energy to knock a full grown man back onto the ground, much less go thru two armored Uruks at once... everything in me that I know about bows and wounds comes from experience as a hunter, EMT, and a Marine...
It looks way cool on screen though...no question about that...
Boromir's death was completely believable, considering the arrows and shot placement... he would have time to fight on, because the bodkins don't cause the massive blood loss... had the last arrow been 4 inches to the right, skewering the liver, he would have gone into shock...and we wouldn't have heard any of the "my captain, my king" speech...
The immediate lethality of an axe, no one can question... I mean, when a major portion of yer internal organs are on the outside of yer body, that's gonna ruin yer medical record...
I watched the scene a bunch of times, came to the same conclusions, but the last Uruk seemed to be stiumbling as he got to Boromir, as if he tripped on bodies or slipped on blood... which is entirely plausible considering the carnage about...
mornin' ksen!
Yawn...I'mup, I'mup.....
Blankety blank blank software.
Good Morning!
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