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To: HairOfTheDog; Corin Stormhands; ksen; Overtaxed; rightwingreligiousfanatic; Bear_in_RoseBear; ...
More on the horn of Gondor:

The fact that you know all that, I find very impressive. just a matter of anatomy and wound characteristics... of course when you add in the human factor, anything's possible...

A bodkin tipped arrow would not slice a horn like that... I'm thinkin' sword stroke (obvious alternative)... there was that kind of odd bullwhip sound during Boromir's dispatching of the last Uruk... anyone else catch that?...

Allow me one comment on Legolas' skills... while I am not questioning the accuracy or speed portrayed, I was just a little bothered by the effects of his arrows... an arrow is not a bullet, and possesses no where near the immediate lethality... an arrow kills through hemorrhage, and a broadhead is geared toward causing maximum blood loss quickly... Even with a heart shot, double lung hit or a hit that severs a major artery, a mature deer still has about 30 secondsto live and major adrenaline to push him...

the fact that he's using bodkin tipped arrows means his targets would die even more slowly...While a head or a heartshot would stop a man (orc) in his tracks due to shock , a hit anywhere else but the spine would not drop a man, much less a Uruk (IMO) in his tracks... kill him, yes... eventually...

the scene of Legolas' killing spree makes my point nicely... a recurve bow does not possess the energy to knock a full grown man back onto the ground, much less go thru two armored Uruks at once... everything in me that I know about bows and wounds comes from experience as a hunter, EMT, and a Marine...

It looks way cool on screen though...no question about that...

Boromir's death was completely believable, considering the arrows and shot placement... he would have time to fight on, because the bodkins don't cause the massive blood loss... had the last arrow been 4 inches to the right, skewering the liver, he would have gone into shock...and we wouldn't have heard any of the "my captain, my king" speech...

The immediate lethality of an axe, no one can question... I mean, when a major portion of yer internal organs are on the outside of yer body, that's gonna ruin yer medical record...

42,829 posted on 11/21/2002 5:41:15 AM PST by g'nad
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To: osagebowman
Ping to #42,829......
42,832 posted on 11/21/2002 5:45:34 AM PST by ksen
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To: g'nad
I'll have to listen to the scene this time... I was watchin' it.
42,837 posted on 11/21/2002 5:52:55 AM PST by carton253
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To: g'nad
Allow me one comment on Legolas' skills... while I am not questioning the accuracy or speed portrayed, I was just a little bothered by the effects of his arrows... an arrow is not a bullet

But these are special elvish arrows!

I noticed this effect this time in the long version more so than the first, how legolas's arrows dropped all the orcs on the spot, and acknowledge that real arrows may not drop them that way. But I re-state... this is a more magical bow than most... a bow and quiver from the Galadrim! ;~D

I think that a deer would run longer with the same injury than a man. I am impressed that prey animals (wild things in particular) in my experience have a much higher tolerance to pain than we have, giving them more ability to survive an attack than predators have. Having not been a deer hunter, I have seen horses react to pain, or rather, how little they react to pain. Horses are highly sentient, but I am amazed in circumstances where a horse seemed to perform willingly and cheerfully all day on trail, and at the end find that mud or bad placement had caused one heck of a girth sore or saddle sore. If a person had developed such a rubbing injury, I can't imagine they would have continued on. A person would at least limp and slow down .. comment? (There is no stress or adrenaline in this example, will to survive under stress would add strenth to either, but I still think the prey animal would go further. I can't predict the pain tolerance of an orc)

42,895 posted on 11/21/2002 7:23:08 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
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To: g'nad
Well, probably a bit late to be posting to this comment but a couple of thoughts on the subject. The Orc loosed the arrows at point blank range, from 'war bow' weight of 80-100 lbs pull, the arrows should have been buried to the fletching if not a pass through. Boromir's armour slowed them down, possibly but recent tests in England posted in a recent article in Primitive Archer showed steel breast plates to be no match for a bodkin. Of course the French learned that when meetin up with King Henry V and his "band of brothers" at Aigincourt.

Bow hunters strive to get the arrow through the quarry, the complete pass through, preferably through both lungs. The quarry's quick demise is inevitable. The broadhead needs to razor sharp and strong made to cut through the ribs and the shaft sturdy enough to keep everything moving in a straight line without breaking.

We have been somewhat conditioned by the movies to expect to see arrows stick out of the intended victim, although a leg or arm bone is generally stout enough to stop or slow the arrow.

If the orc arrows had each ended up in a lung, Boromir would have had quite a time giving his speech, and we would have missed quite a scene.

Just my opinion but I tell you Legolas rocks when he lets his bow do the talking.
43,149 posted on 11/21/2002 6:05:08 PM PST by osagebowman
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