It's a nice conjecture, but unless it's found in a container labeled "orichalcum", it's brass. :^) Thanks Red Badger.
Posted on 01/15/2025 6:57:50 AM PST by Red Badger
Ancient texts speak of a strange and valuable metal known as orichalcum. The mystical material was often dismissed as a fantastical invention – until they discovered a large cache of the stuff in the Mediterranean Sea.
Orichalcum’s name is derived from the Greek for "mountain copper.” One of its most prominent mentions comes in the legend of Atlantis by Plato, in which it is described as “more precious [...] than anything except gold.” The dialogue, called Critias, explains how the mythical citadel of Atlantis was adorned with walls, pillars, and floors that were coated in orichalcum, endowing the building with a flash of “red light.”
It’s also featured in several other ancient texts, including those by the 1st century CE writers Cicero and Pliny the Elder.
Often said to possess a reddish hue, there were many hints that orichalcum might be a form of brass – an alloy of copper and zinc – although its precise identity wasn’t revealed until several breakthroughs in modern science and archaeology.
In 2014, a diver discovered 40 ingots of an alloy metal in the Mediterranean Sea off the coast of the ancient Greek town of Gela in modern-day Sicily. Further surveys by the local authorities in 2016 revealed another 47 ingots just 10 meters (~33 feet) away from the first discovery. It was evident the two caches of ingots were from the same shipwreck that sunk to the seabed around 2,500 years ago.
The skinny metal bars were found to be a copper-zinc alloy, suggesting they were a bundle of ancient orichalcum.
Scientists also believe they’ve found evidence of orichalcum in ancient Roman coins. Most coins from this era were made of gold, silver, bronze, or copper. However, a 2019 study used a scanning electron microscope to show that some coins minted after the reforms of Augustus (23 BCE) and Nero (63–64 CE) were composed of copper-zinc alloy with up to 30 percent zinc, i.e. orichalcum.
So it turns out that orichalcum isn’t as enigmatic as it’s often portrayed. The metal is not fundamentally chemically distinct from brass; instead, it is an ancient term often used to describe a specific type of brass. However, its makeup varied over time, with varying concentrations of zinc, copper, and impurities.
“In a strict sense, the term orichalcum should be understood to refer not to a single alloy but to a class of alloys that contained copper and zinc as principal components. Though Roman alloys of this class may be called brass, they contain lower proportions of zinc than most varieties of modern brass. Orichalcum is therefore a convenient and distinctive term for designating the particular kind of brass manufacture,” Earle Radcliffe Caley, an American chemist and historian of chemistry, wrote in a 1964 paper.
It's a nice conjecture, but unless it's found in a container labeled "orichalcum", it's brass. :^) Thanks Red Badger.
unfortunately not rare, is the bolognium deposit in DC.
unfortunately not rare, is the bolognium deposit in DC.
“musical instruments...particularly trombones, red brass is used for the bell to influence the sound quality....a rose brass bell (aka red brass) can produce a more mellow sound compared to yellow brass, which tends to produce a brighter tone.”
That’s amazing. I had no idea. It must have to do with natural frequency changes in the bell section between red and yellow brass.
No problem. I convinced the Smurfs to guard it for me.
Thank you for post. Interesting subject.
I was in the wholesale hardware distribution business for 40 years. Observed a lot of strange things related to brass in plumbing.
40 years ago, brass valves were the norm, not so much today. I have seen brass harden and become brittle after years of use in very hot water (mixing valves). I suspect the zinc content is leached out and the brass is even more red than when the faucet was manufactured. I have seen mixing valves where the Hot water side was noticeably more red than the cold water side.
Plumbing was very simple 50 years ago, faucets lasted longer and could be fixed easily. Today there are some great valves with very little brass in them, but there are so many different variations in how they work, it is hard to repair one.
TF
Yes, we are dying from complexity.
“Democrats destroy everything they touch. They are as ignorant children playing with matches.............”
Bump
It’s BC and AD. NOT BCE and CE!
If it's too easy to repair, they don't get to sell as many new replacements.
OK, I have question for the physics and electrical geniuses here... Since Zinc and Copper are used as Cathodes and Anodes what would happen if they were both the same at 30% alloy of both? Would both positive and negative poles in a battery with electrolyte produce 1.2 volts as it should in a cell? Would it cancel it’s self or would it open the door to AC batteries since it has properties of both?
I ask this because one time I did a study on just boulders around where I lived at the time. While they all had both DC and AC output, they had selective polarity with no difference to orientation to the magnetic field, and some had more DC than AC and others had more AC than DC.
So I do know that a “mix” is super critical to what you get out of alloys in an electrolyte. Would a same mix of the two on both Cathodes and Anodes still work and produce? Could it set up a cycle and produce AC??? Or would it just cancel each other because of like kind element alloys?
Now before you answer please think outside the box and ditch everything you think you already know and have been taught... Use your own gut knowledge about possibilities with this. Because this is what Tesla and Edison did which made them unique...
But I am curious as hell...
Cathodes and anodes must be of different materials because one must ‘give up’ electrons while the other must ‘take in’ electrons.
If they are both the same material, no current flow is generated.........
And no AC is not possible.............
Have we tried that with an outside varied frequency applied? To produce possible alternating pattern?
At least it wasn’t Euphonium, the most awkward of metals.
Plus any crap they didn't refine away.
Correct.
But in my opinion, good design is simple and reliable.
Very little of the stuff (most off shored) today has a long life and none of it is simple to fix.
Einstein- Everything Should Be Made as Simple as Possible, But Not Simpler
“So any metal had to be an alloy of these
Plus any crap they didn’t refine away.”
Knowing metals... I would say this all depended on knowledge of temperatures. The reason iron came later is because they couldn’t figure out how to reach the temperatures needed to smelt the ore. You can actually separate different metals with controlled temps.
Oh, if only they had a decent prism...
Fractional distillation just popped into my old brain.
“Fractional distillation just popped into my old brain.”
Yep... Or different grease “drop off” tempts... Some fancy “Sticky high temp” greases will burn up bearings when temps get cold. If they do not get liquid enough to drop off you have a serious problem.
So in the same concept you can separate metals with temps where one melts but the other doesn’t yet.
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