Posted on 12/30/2024 7:37:45 AM PST by Lazamataz
I've noticed, as of late, the quality of the arguments on Free Republic have declined. This is especially true as regards the H1B argument.
I have no intention of rehashing this argument, nor the points therein. I am speaking only to the tone and tenor of our forum participants.
Musk did us no favors by being so confrontational about this issue, and may have inadvertently sparked the furor. I fault him for that. I see he's trying to cool this down now, and that is to his credit.
However, it is my belief that the Deep State saw an opening and drove a wedge into it, to separate people on different sides of the argument, who normally would be backing Trump.
As I wrote elsewhere:
It's kinda amazing that the Deep State can ring a bell and we salivate like a Pavlovian dog.
You think we'd know better by now.
That point aside, repeatedly, I'm seeing a lot of posters lately are being rather personal as opposed to arguing the merits of their case. That behavior sheds a lot more heat than light.
It’s as if attorneys were to argue in court:
Atty 1: “Where’d you get your law degree, you fat loser? A crackerjack box? Your client is GUILTY and you are a blind FREAK if you can’t see that!”
Atty 2: “Oh, talk about blind! I understand you are a faggot in your personal life, too! Do you molest boys, you creep? YOU should be the one on trial!”
Judge: “Gentlemen, can we return to the facts of th...”
Atty 1: “Oh just shut the eff up, judge, and play with yourself under your robe, like you always do.”
Atty 2: “Yeah, shut up, you twatwaffle! I never liked you, now I know why!”
In short, I hope that people can dial things down a notch and present their cases with a lot less invective.
I myself have been guilty over the years of being nothing less than an online terrorist, but I do now see the errors of that path, especially here, where we are all one big family.
This is an important issue and we need to discuss it. I suggest we at least wait until our President is inaugurated, or, if it is important to discuss now, that we do so with a lot less invective. We are not Democrat Underground.
Deep thanks on this thread.
I have a big problem with personal attacks. Much as I’ve enjoyed FR and the tree house, the nastiness is overwhelming now.
We survived those terrible Clinton years and Obama years and Biden years, and I’ve been so much looking forward to exulting over Trump’s return and every historical event that will be pulling our society back from the brink of destruction. But instead of joy at his imminent return, it’s soul destroying vitriol aimed at one another. And it makes no sense. We’re all on the same side. We just differ in details.
We’re not in Europe murdering one another over religion minutae. We’re in the best country about to have the best president and life now is about hope, not despair.
I largely agree. I have generally not waded in on this. But I feel that the Left/Deep State saw an opening for division, exploited it fully, and set us on each other.
If you are just now noticing, you haven’t been watching the Ukraine war threads.
“If you have ever been a leader, you would understand this. You will be misquoted. you will say things in short version without getting into all the details behind your thinking. You will be tired and there is not shortage of people to criticize you.”
Thank you for this thoughtful and informative post.
It is obvious you have been there and done that.
I am a numbers guy and I would like FR to be discussing the merits of this post. Are these numbers accurate or biased?
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1873174358535110953
Evidence I have seen , they have a lot of truth to it. But we are in the middle of much change. The past is not what musk and vivak are proposing. They have helped expose the depth of the problem.
It is all about management and leadership. Musk has used the program well and when he discusses he sees it from the eyes of good management. It is not the program, it is the management that needs to be changed.
WE NEED A CRASH COURSE ON UNDERSTANDING GOOD LEADERSHIP AND HOW TO DO IT.
If by "of late" you mean "starting about 25 years ago," then I'd have to agree with you.
Correct.
The H1b Visa thing is real and medium sized. The Deep State would love us to have a civil war over it in order to split us irretrievably.
Don’t let them have it. We can disagree, and set aside this one issue while we:
DESTROY THE DEEP STATE
CLOSE THE BORDER
EJECT LAWBREAKERS
ENFORCE THE LAW
DESTROY DEI
CUT SPENDING
CUT TAXES
GET OUT OF UKRAINE
And a hundred other things that matter more than H1b visas.
No, I noticed it there too. I simply disregarded it because there were paid propagandists populating those threads.
“ Elon and Vivek said their piece, and were rebuked.
They lack the perspective of the natural Born citizen.”
100% agree.
This wasn’t dome “deep state” plot.
This people telling us what they really think.
Musk and Vivek are all about what’s best for them. We all need to be that way to some degree.
But the idea of America matters as well. Looking out out for America and Americans always need to be at the top of a political agenda .
Musk is building electric cars that aren’t needed and getting American tax payer money to do so. That’s wrong. Then he tells us to F off for questioning his idea to import more foreign workers.
LOL! To an extent I agree, but way back when, we'd argue too, but more civily.
Somehow after Vivek and Elon call native born Americans racists and retards, it’s time for the FR hall monitors to insist on a civil debate.
Trump / Cruz 2016 ...
***ducks!***
Well said. It’s been declining since at least 2020 if not longer.
Yeah. Musk went hothead on us and caused a good portion of this. I applaud Musk for his directness, but he needs to play a little more ‘chesslike’. Trump is a hothead as well, but he is far more strategic. Trump probably needs to have a talk with Musk and rein him in a little.
And the problem is that it’s been tolerated by the mods. Bad behavior tolerated just encourages more of the same.
Yes it is.
Direct invective at those who made those mistakes, not your fellow conservatives.
NEGATIVE. That means you are indicating we can’t think for ourselves. I know what I see. I know what I have researched. Deep State has nothing to do with my opinion other than they are likely part of the fraud.
There are plenty of people here who have had first hand experience at the discrimination. I have not had first hand experience. But I know how to research.
Musk had an autistic meltdown because people were challenging him. To believe this poster is to believe we can’t think for ourselves.
1) they want simple answers to complex problems
2) they have to be right
3) they run on emotions.
But you are not that. You understand the 10 Principles of Conservatism and read them enough to influence your thinking. You have printed them out and read them often.
https://kirkcenter.org/conservatism/ten-conservative-principles/
Three points, please.
1. The Deep State did not start this H-1B controversy. Musk did. As was noted, he’s trying to walk it back. But it’s on him. Try to be more of a team player, Elon.
2. We are doing the conservative cause no favor when we keep silent when we see something amiss. The trick is speak up without causing any irreparable fractures. For sure that takes a bit of restraint.
3. I too am concerned about how often threads devolve into childish personal attacks and name-calling. It is to the Robinsons’ credit that they allow us a lot of leeway. But perhaps it’s a bit too much leeway. It could be time to mobilize the Viking Kitties.
After all, the boss is quite clear: “ NO profanity, NO personal attacks, NO racism or violence in posts.”
Only so much they can do. Only so many hours in a day.
The purpose of my thread is to encourage voluntary compliance. I'm not a mod, I never will be.
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