You think we'd know better by now.
Posted on 12/30/2024 7:37:45 AM PST by Lazamataz
I've noticed, as of late, the quality of the arguments on Free Republic have declined. This is especially true as regards the H1B argument.
I have no intention of rehashing this argument, nor the points therein. I am speaking only to the tone and tenor of our forum participants.
Musk did us no favors by being so confrontational about this issue, and may have inadvertently sparked the furor. I fault him for that. I see he's trying to cool this down now, and that is to his credit.
However, it is my belief that the Deep State saw an opening and drove a wedge into it, to separate people on different sides of the argument, who normally would be backing Trump.
As I wrote elsewhere:
It's kinda amazing that the Deep State can ring a bell and we salivate like a Pavlovian dog.
You think we'd know better by now.
That point aside, repeatedly, I'm seeing a lot of posters lately are being rather personal as opposed to arguing the merits of their case. That behavior sheds a lot more heat than light.
It’s as if attorneys were to argue in court:
Atty 1: “Where’d you get your law degree, you fat loser? A crackerjack box? Your client is GUILTY and you are a blind FREAK if you can’t see that!”
Atty 2: “Oh, talk about blind! I understand you are a faggot in your personal life, too! Do you molest boys, you creep? YOU should be the one on trial!”
Judge: “Gentlemen, can we return to the facts of th...”
Atty 1: “Oh just shut the eff up, judge, and play with yourself under your robe, like you always do.”
Atty 2: “Yeah, shut up, you twatwaffle! I never liked you, now I know why!”
In short, I hope that people can dial things down a notch and present their cases with a lot less invective.
I myself have been guilty over the years of being nothing less than an online terrorist, but I do now see the errors of that path, especially here, where we are all one big family.
This is an important issue and we need to discuss it. I suggest we at least wait until our President is inaugurated, or, if it is important to discuss now, that we do so with a lot less invective. We are not Democrat Underground.
Oh, I agree. None other than Jim Robinson called me an 'online terrorist'.
But a man can change. Even Trump was an avowed liberal for a long time.
I do, however, reserve the right to be rougher on people who are stealth liberals or disruptors of the forum.
I don’t think that’s true. I think many very bright people hold mutually incompatible ideas without realizing that there is a conflict. When challenged Musk was angry, not at the challenge because he is usually very able to roll with the punches but because he felt threatened. I think that’s because of the sudden awareness of an internal conflict. As he recalibrated he made the choice for MAGA and ending/revising H1B visa use.
Elon Musk@elonmusk
Dec 28
Replying to @RobertMSterling
Easily fixed by raising the minimum salary significantly and adding a yearly cost for maintaining the H1B, making it materially more expensive to hire from overseas than domestically. I’ve been very clear that the program is broken and needs major reform.
Elon Musk @elonmusk Dec 27
America rose to greatness over the past 150 years, because it was a meritocracy more than anywhere else on Earth.
I will fight to my last drop of blood to ensure that it remains that land of freedom and opportunity.
I’m with ya Laz.
We’re collecting some folks that like to scream and argue with no data, just emotions. I go around them, don’t like dealing with fools.
Had one that I mistakenly engaged with try to bait me a few months ago. Just told him “carry on” or something to that effect.
Sad, really.
Why not just accept the testimony from the executive from biggest H1b Visa Body shop who has the most H1b visas.
You might try to claim that the person who worked there and was fired after complaining about what they were doing has an axe to grind and can’t be relied on. Okay, so what if that is true.
Their own executive testified under oath.
Intel has complained about what is happening and tried to get someone to do something about it.
All it takes is just a little research to find out just how bad the problem really is.
> They are a cabal. They look out for themselves. <
My old-time doctor (he still made house calls) retired about a decade ago. His replacement is a doctor from India. He’s a good enough doctor, I guess.
But all of his referrals are to other doctors from India. Quite the coincidence, eh?
A point of order, if I may:
Vivek Ramaswamy was born in Cincinnati, Ohio.
The priority is and should be Illegal Immigration. We can look into H1B visas some other day. One is legal and the other is not. So right this minute, not as serious a problem.
“I’m seeing a lot of posters lately are being rather personal as opposed to arguing the merits of their case. That behavior sheds a lot more heat than light.”
Intelligent, honest, and objective debate like adults? That might be a stretch here...
Put not to American citizen parents.
Yes, something is going to happen.
I think "they" didn't mind Trump being in charge when "it" happens.
I actually thought of that, too. Maybe?
That guy is a real Eddie Haskell. Oops, I slipped up and used a reference from that inferior American culture he despises so...
Some of the more heated posts have come from a place where the poster has personal knowledge of the discrimination. It is a slap in their face to claim it doesn’t happen or it really isn’t that prevalent.
It is prevalent.
If Trump would go back in Time and think about how outraged he was at what Disney did to those 250 IT employees and recognize an H1B Visa Body shop was involved who has said in court their workers aren’t more skilled he might realize the folly of the H1B.
This topic won’t go away . Not after the Smarmy comments by Musk and Vivek.
Posters are still ‘zotted’ and it takes a mod to do that.
My personal observation is that those who support Ukraine in its fight against an invading Russia are immediately labeled as Biden supporters or neocons, which is far beyond what FReepers in general would support. Yet those who support the resistance in Ukraine, even only in spirit, are more likely to get the zot than the Russian invasion supporters who chime in every thread with their ‘zeeper’ memes, which are entirely intended to be personal attacks and squelch open debate.
Love that analogy 🤣
Good job Laz. If there existed a like button, i’d hit it! Lol
“That guy is a real Eddie Haskell. Oops, I slipped up and used a reference from that inferior American culture he despises so...”
Lol! I consider it a perk positive to be old enough to understand the reference.
I have seen a lot of speculation about that but in this case it may have just been Vivek realizing he stepped in it and backed out versus Elon having an Autistic type meltdown.
I don’t know the whole story on this Adrian Dittman persona. Some say it is just AI. Some say it is Musk. I am not astute enough to figure it out.
IF Musk is Dittman it sheds some light on some of this.
(Hand slaps forehead)
And they are off and running fighting about the Visa issue instead of the topic of cordiality in your post... lol
You may have been able to rile them up more than the powers that be.
Incredible... Reminds me of the time I saw a property owner put up a “no dumping” sign on a perfectly clean lot. Within a week it was piled with garbage. “Don’t tell us we can’t dump here if we want...!” lol
Their term for it is ROLCON…Role Play Conservative.
Yes.
I've stayed out of it, except for a couple of "wait and see" comments.
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