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The Natural Born Citizen Conundrum
The Post & Email Newspaper ^ | 07 Aug 2024 | Joseph DeMaio

Posted on 08/07/2024 11:02:50 AM PDT by CDR Kerchner

(Aug. 7, 2024) — INTRODUCTION

As long-time P&E readers know, your humble servant has for many years railed on about the “natural born Citizen” (“nbC”) issue and how it has been handled (and mishandled) by commentators, scholars and governmental agencies such as the Congressional Research Service (“CRS”). But now, in mid-2024, with the issue again presenting itself in the form of the candidacy for president of one Kamala Devi Harris, and opposed to a tedious repeat of past posts, a brief “one-stop-shopper’s” refresher course, gathering and summarizing in one post the highlights of the debate, may be helpful for those upcoming weekend cocktail party gatherings and barbecue cook-outs where competing “discussions” (aka, “arguments”) on the topic may break out.

Your servant has on several occasions directly addressed the nbC issue as to Harris, here, here and here. The details of those posts will not be re-hashed here, but their conclusions remain: Kamala Devi Harris is likely constitutionally ineligible to seek the presidency, as she is very likely not a natural born Citizen as contemplated by the Founders and Framers of the Constitution.

Instead, your servant now offers the following highlights, summarizing how we got to this precarious juncture in the history of the Republic in the first place and in addition, what might be done to correct the situation, provided that there are enough patriots to put their collective shoulders to the wheel. Candidly, that goal presently seems remote, yet the only way to ensure failure is to forego the attempt. So, here goes.

(Excerpt) Read more at thepostemail.com ...


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; History; Military/Veterans; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: 14thamendment; 2024election; barackobama; birthrightcitizen; constitution; election2024; kamala; kamalaharris; kamalatruth; nationalsecurity; naturalborncitizen; nbc; presidenteligibility; wongkimark1898
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To: Amendment10

Thanks for the John Jay quote and associated citation.

Here’s one of the footnotes from that text:

7. Notation in margin: “Vat. 3 B. 7. Ch.” Emer de Vattel, The law of nations; or, Principles of the law of nature: applied to the conduct and affairs of nations and sovereigns. By M. de Vattel. A work tending to display the true interest of powers. Translated from the French (London: printed for J. Newbery, J. Richardson, S. Crowder, T. Caslon, T. Longman, B. Law, J. Fuller, J. Coote, and G. Kearsly, 1759), bk. 3, chap. 7, sec. 103, p. 36. Here and below JJ paraphrases or quotes with minor changes in punctuation or capitalization from this edition, his personal copy of which is now in the Columbia University Law Library.

This seems to show that, at least as of 1793, John Jay possessed a 1759 English translation of the original French of Vattel’s Law of Nations.

BTW, Emer de Vattel is cited up and down the length of the noted paper by Jay (an intellectual giant among U.S. founding fathers).


21 posted on 08/07/2024 1:42:44 PM PDT by one guy in new jersey
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To: FreedomForce

gaslight


22 posted on 08/07/2024 1:45:53 PM PDT by one guy in new jersey
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To: cpdiii

In Inglis v. Trustees (1830) and Elk v. Wilkins (1884), the Supreme Court considered the status of children who are born in the United States, of fathers who owe allegiance to a sovereignty other than the United States. In both cases, the Court ruled that such children are not even citizens, let alone natural born citizens.


23 posted on 08/07/2024 1:46:54 PM PDT by South Dakota (Patriotism is the new terrorism .)
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To: cpdiii

In Minor v. Happersett (1875), the Supreme Court defined two classes of persons. The first class consists of children born in the United States, of U.S.-citizen parents. The second class consists of all other U.S.-born children, regardless of their parents’ citizenship. The Court used the term “natural born citizen” only in reference to members of the first class. Regarding members of the second class, the Court doubted they were even citizens, let alone natural born citizens. In the Court’s opinion, natural born citizens are “distinguished from” aliens or foreigners, suggesting that a natural born citizen is someone who is not a “foreigner” (foreign citizen) at birth [05].


24 posted on 08/07/2024 1:48:50 PM PDT by South Dakota (Patriotism is the new terrorism .)
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To: one guy in new jersey

In Kwock Jan Fat v. White (1920), the Supreme Court referred to Mr. Kwock as a natural born citizen. He was born in the United States. At the time of his birth, his father was a native-born American citizen, and his mother was a U.S. citizen by marriage.


25 posted on 08/07/2024 1:50:58 PM PDT by South Dakota (Patriotism is the new terrorism .)
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To: South Dakota; one guy in new jersey; ridesthemiles; Ancesthntr; Carry_Okie; CDR Kerchner

Check out the last sentence of the 12th Amendment.

The time to challenge her qualification to the presidency was four years ago.

Ya’ll are urinating into the wind.


26 posted on 08/07/2024 2:08:09 PM PDT by Jacquerie (ArticleVBlog.com)
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To: FreedomForce
The courts will never rule that Kamala Harris or anyone else with the same citizenship status isn’t natural-born.

Well this is true.

Modern courts are pretty incompetent, aren't they?

Did you see how they let Alec Baldwin go for some idiotic legal bullsh*t the other day?

27 posted on 08/07/2024 2:29:49 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: cpdiii
Until the Supreme Court defines “Natural Born Citizen” we will not know who can or can not be president.

"Nature" defines it. The courts can either acknowledge what the "natural law" definition of it is, or they can just get it wrong as they usually do.

28 posted on 08/07/2024 2:31:05 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: DrHFrog
Once Obama was inaugurated, the meaning of NBC no longer had relevance.

This is pretty much the long and short of it.

29 posted on 08/07/2024 2:32:12 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: one guy in new jersey
BTW, Emer de Vattel is cited up and down the length of the noted paper by Jay (an intellectual giant among U.S. founding fathers).

And Jay is the initiator of the "natural born citizen" requirement.

30 posted on 08/07/2024 2:33:49 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: Carry_Okie

Kamala was born from two foreigners, she is an anchor baby not a citizen.


31 posted on 08/07/2024 2:35:45 PM PDT by Glad2bnuts (“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: We should have set up ambushes...paraphrased)
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To: Jacquerie
The time to challenge her qualification to the presidency was four years ago.

Ya’ll are urinating into the wind.

We all know the courts will never deal with any mistakes until they are left with absolutely no choice.

And even then, they will try to do whatever makes them feel good at the time.

Modern courts are particularly incompetent.

32 posted on 08/07/2024 2:35:53 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: one guy in new jersey

Mark Levins standards are subject to his intent.


33 posted on 08/07/2024 2:36:29 PM PDT by Glad2bnuts (“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: We should have set up ambushes...paraphrased)
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To: one guy in new jersey

I don’t care what you call it. If you think all this blather about natural-born citizenship is going to get Kamala Harris or anyone else like her disqualified, you’re a fool. It’s just distracting from the issues and giving the mainstream media ammunition to ridicule Trump supporters as birthers. This sort of nonsense is helping her.


34 posted on 08/07/2024 3:57:08 PM PDT by FreedomForce
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To: DiogenesLamp

The Supreme Court would rule Kamala Harris natural-born. It might be supreme incompetence, but it would still be supreme law of the land.


35 posted on 08/07/2024 4:01:01 PM PDT by FreedomForce
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To: CDR Kerchner

Commander:

I’m 77. I remember my fourth grade teacher telling us an NBC means both parents are citizens. Apparently the left has disappeared history books stating that.

Glenn Beck used to have “Wall Builders” founder David Barton on as a guest, and he has said they have many old historical documents and books in their collection.

Their website https://wallbuilders.com/ state:

“America is Built
on a Firm
Foundation

Have you been looking for documented
truth about our nation’s history?

Do you support Christian ideals of
freedom in America?

Do you struggle knowing where to start
looking for answers?”

Have you talked with David Barton? I asked the question on his facebook page but didn’t get a reply.

Maybe someone with your gravitas can get him to look for old text books in his collection. teaching the two citizen parent requirement I was taught, in the 1950’s. Libs and FogBowers (I repeat myself) have denied this was ever taught, and it burns me up.

Thanks very much for your time.


36 posted on 08/07/2024 4:09:24 PM PDT by JohnnyP (Thinking is hard work (I stole that from Rush).)
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To: Jacquerie

This Guy is of the opinion that the J6 Constitutional process sanates any deficiencies that may exist in the soon-to-be-sworn-in POTUS and VPOTUS.

Such as non-NBC status.


37 posted on 08/07/2024 4:32:10 PM PDT by one guy in new jersey
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To: FreedomForce
The Supreme Court would rule Kamala Harris natural-born. It might be supreme incompetence, but it would still be supreme law of the land.

Just so everyone is aware, what we are discussing in these threads is truth, not what men with guns will enforce.

It ought to be the same thing, but with modern incompetent courts, it isn't.

38 posted on 08/07/2024 4:39:24 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: DiogenesLamp

Yes, in the famous and very timely letter to GW.

“...any but...”

This language is only compatible with utter exclusivity in the status of NBC of the United States.

Levin’s 2013 loose interpretation of the term to include Cruz (birth outside the U.S. but to at least one U.S. citizen parent), and which logically would now include Harris (birth within the U.S. but to exactly zero U.S. citizen parents) can’t possibly match up with the exclusivity envisioned by Jay for the “Command in chief of the american army”.


39 posted on 08/07/2024 4:44:56 PM PDT by one guy in new jersey
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To: FreedomForce

Nothing will help her now.


40 posted on 08/07/2024 4:46:07 PM PDT by one guy in new jersey
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