The Babylonian Map of the World with Irving Finkel [17:59]

YouTube ^ | Premiered August 1, 2024 | Irving Finkel, The British Museum

[SunkenCiv]

The Babylonian map of the world is the oldest map of the world, in the world. Written and inscribed on clay in Mesopotamia around 2,900-years-ago, it is, like so many cuneiform tablets, incomplete. However, Irving Finkel and a particularly gifted student of his - Edith Horsley - managed to locate a missing piece of the map, slot it back into the cuneiform tablet, and from there set us all on journey through the somewhat mythical landscape of Mesopotamia to find the final resting place of the ark. And yes we mean that ark, as in Noah's ark. Although in the earlier Mesopotamian version of the flood story, the ark is built by Ziusudra.

The Babylonian Map of the World with Irving Finkel
Curator's Corner S9 Ep5 | 17:59 | The British Museum | 618K subscribers | 182,572 views | Premiered August 1, 2024

[ckilmer]

Where does it say that Shem is semetic? Or that all the people between shem and abraham are semetic?

[ckilmer]

It is generally thought that the first covenant that God made specifically with the Jewish people was the covenant with abraham. The covenant God made with Adam and Noah was with all people. Only the covenants God made with Abraham and Moses are specifically with the Jewish people. What Jesus did was to make a new covenant again. This new covenant that Jesus made— like in the beginning— is with all people.

Jews to this day do not recognize the covenant God made with all people through Jesus. Rather they recognize the covenant that God made with all people through Noah. So if you’re a gentile—and you ask an observant, knowledgeable Jew how you can be good—he’ll say follow the covenant God made with Noah.

All this suggests that perhaps Noah was not semetic.

[ckilmer]

well that clearly settles it.

[ckilmer]

All true. Except that archaelogists do not think that the sumerians were a semetic people. They agree rather than the Akkadians were a semetic people. They inhabited the northern cities of sumer. But Abraham and his father were from the southern city of Ur which was a non semetic city state.

[RoosterRedux]

Best I can tell, the etymology/origin of the word "Semitic" is the name Shem. Here's a note I have in some old files (unsourced):

The term "Semitic" was first coined in the late 18th century by German historian and linguist August Ludwig von Schlözer. It comes from the Greek "Sēmitikos," which means "pertaining to Shem" (Greek: Σημ).

[RoosterRedux]

I agree that Sumerians were not Semitic. But some Semitic people lived in that area and, in fact, the area of lower Mesopotamia became Akkadian-speaking around the 2nd millennium BC IIRC.

[RoosterRedux]

Abraham and his father were from the southern city of Ur which was a non semetic city state.

Very true.

But by the time Abram and his father were in Ur, it was an Akkadian speaking area and Abram and his father were (at least in the Bible) thought to be Semitic by virtue of his lineage back to Shem.

[RoosterRedux]

I'm signing off for the day, but thanks for the fun and thought provoking discussion.:-)

These threads are my favorite.

[ckilmer]

Maybe. What we know is that Abraham’s father left Ur during its final collapse and its takeover by the Semitic Akkadians. No one knows whether the departure of Abram’s father came before or after the collapse.

But consider—if Abram’s father was a semetic Akkadian—why leave UR?

[ckilmer]

The term “Semitic” was first coined in the late 18th century by German historian and linguist August Ludwig von Schlözer. It comes from the Greek “Sēmitikos,” which means “pertaining to Shem” (Greek: Σημ).

////////
Greeks were outsider’s to this tradition.

The question is as to whether the old hebrews themselves considered Shem or Abram’s father to be semetic.

[PLMerite]

Just watched it. Fascinating. The man is a treasure.

[SunkenCiv]

I’m just grateful that he looks like Old Father Time, as he’s only a handful of years older than me. :^)