Posted on 05/06/2024 8:04:47 AM PDT by marktwain
A continual debate in the firearms and hunting community is about caliber wars. 9mm v .45. What is the minimum caliber for whitetail deer? What calibers are good for elk? Moose? Grizzly bears? In the research of handguns fired in defense against bears, a surprising conclusion springs forth: Caliber is not as important as we thought. Having a firearm is more important than caliber. There are several reasons why this is so.
First, a firearm builds confidence. A person with a firearms has more confidence they can do something instead of nothing. Call it the psychological factor. A firearm gives a person the confidence to stand their ground. Even bear spray proponent Tom Smith acknowledges the importance of this. From byu.edu/news, 2008:
Smith believes one of the primary reasons bear spray works is that it gives users a reason to stand their ground. Running is the worst response to an aggressive bear, he said, “but it’s hard not to.
Second, there is noise. Firearms, even small caliber handguns, are loud, much louder than nearly anything in nature except for a thunderclap. Warning shots work primarily though noise. Warning shots are seriously underrated because most successful warning shots are not reported. Of the documented incidents where handguns were fired in defense against bears, warning shots worked 21 of 29 times or 69%. Bears that are indifferent to the presence of a human and to warning shots are very dangerous bears.
(Excerpt) Read more at ammoland.com ...
Maybe you’re decent at math only 2/3ds of the time.
The Minx...
I’ve upgraded to the 21A and dream
Of one with a Can!
.
Pocket Mouse Gun ——YeeHaw!
An Inuit woman once held the worlds record for killing the largest grizzly. She shot it through the eyeball and into the brain with a .22 rifle.
>shooting that .454 was…..brutal.
Similar to a S&W .500 magnum. It will bruise your palm and place and create an indent on your forehead if you don’t hold it properly.
kudos
The running joke is that if you find someone trying to sell a used large caliber handgun, it will come with a box of ammo with two rounds missing.
9mm is what I have for EDC. Not long after they first came out, I bought a Springfield Armory Omega, chambered in 10mm. This was around 1990.
That had some oomph to it. I liked it quite a bit, but ammo became scarce and expensive, so I sold it and bought an SA XD9 subcompact. That’s one of my
EDCs now. I wish I still had that 10 mm though…..
I’ve long thought that the 500 S&W cartridge would be an excellent round for a lever gun.
Good aim, or very lucky.
Either way, impressive job.
If they're not reported, how do we know that they're seriously underrated?
They must have had one heck of a barbeque afterwards.
Sorta, kinda.
I have read the Thompson-LaGarde tests, which is almost certainly what the above is referring to.
As a scientist, their test design was poor, and tended to reach conclusions they were already biased toward. (confirmation bias).
None of the cows they shot, as I recall, went down right now, unless it was a brain shot.
"Stopping power" is an extremely difficult thing to measure. However, we know penetration of the brain and direct hits on the spinal column are pretty reliable stoppers. Breaking bones to stop/restrict motion, work nearly as well, as they give an ability to shoot more followup shots.
The .45 is an excellent cartridge. It has stood the test of time. It is not magic.
It’s no joke. When I sold the 10mm, with it went 2 boxes of Winchester Silvertip Hollowpoints, with 7 rounds missing, and a 20 rd box of the original Norma
200 gr. FMJ. I shot up the other boxes I had. Like I said, I do regret selling it now, but I think I made the right decision at the time.
“Yes, they shot a series of cows with various calibers until they got one that did the job consistently.”
—————RESULTS—————
We are not acquainted with any bullet fired from a hand weapon that will stop a determined enemy when the projectile traverses soft parts alone. The requirements of such a bullet would need to have a sectional area like that of a 3-inch solid shot the recoil from which when used in hand weapons would be prohibitive. ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thompson%E2%80%93LaGarde_Tests
My .45 is for scaring a bear. My AR-10 is for killing a bear.
I would sure prefer a 380 or at least a 22 long.
I have talked to numerous people who have lived in bear country and who had numerous encounters with brown(grizzly) and black bears. Nearly all of them tell me warning shots work most of the time, and there is no reason to report them to the authorities.
So, there is a lot of anecdotal evidence both about the success of warning shots, and the lack of reporting.
In addition, the authorities in the Svalbard Archipelago require warning shots and or flash/bang "bear banger" fireworks. For aggressive and/or curious polar bears.
Similarly, in their literature they claim warning shots work most of the time.
Mr. GG2 carried Springfield Armory both in .40mm XD and .9mm XDE for years. He just recently switched to CZ in .9mm. I have two Rugers in .9mm and in Georgia the average bear weighs 125lbs so unless you run into a monster the .9mm should get the job done.
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