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Where Was the Israeli Military?
NYT via DNyuz ^ | 12/30/2023 | Adam Goldman, Ronen Bergman, Mark Mazzetti, Natan Odenheimer, Alexander Cardia, Ainara Tiefenthäler

Posted on 12/31/2023 8:00:55 AM PST by logi_cal869

Far beneath the Israeli military headquarters in Tel Aviv, in a bunker known as The Pit, commanders were trying to make sense of reports of Hamas rocket fire in southern Israel early on the morning of Oct. 7, when the call came in.

It was a commander from the division that oversees military operations along the border with Gaza. Their base was under attack. The commander could not describe the scope of the attack or provide more details, according to a military official with knowledge of the call. But he asked that all available reinforcements be sent.

At 7:43 a.m., more than an hour after the rocket assault began and thousands of Hamas fighters stormed into Israel, The Pit issued its first deployment instructions of the day. It ordered all emergency forces to head south, along with all available units that could do so quickly.

But the nation’s military leaders did not yet recognize that an invasion of Israel was already well underway.

Hours later, desperate Israeli citizens were still fending for themselves and calling for help. Roughly 1,200 people died as the Middle East’s most advanced military failed in its essential mission: protecting Israeli lives.

The full reasons behind the military’s slow response may take months to understand. The government has promised an inquiry. But a New York Times investigation found that Israel’s military was undermanned, out of position and so poorly organized that soldiers communicated in impromptu WhatsApp groups and relied on social media posts for targeting information. Commandos rushed into battle armed only for brief combat. Helicopter pilots were ordered to look to news reports and Telegram channels to choose targets.

And perhaps most damning: The Israel Defense Forces did not even have a plan to respond to a large-scale Hamas attack on Israeli soil,

(Excerpt) Read more at dnyuz.com ...


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: hamas; israel; octoberseventh
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The other, little discussed part of the equation.

Full disclosure: This is a NYT piece, but it asks many (but not all) of the same questions which came to my mind on 10/7.

1 posted on 12/31/2023 8:00:55 AM PST by logi_cal869
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To: logi_cal869

All are fair questions, but wow, does the NYT want to shove a knife in Netanyahu’s back!


2 posted on 12/31/2023 8:04:05 AM PST by Wally_Kalbacken
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To: logi_cal869

I’m not the smartest guy in the world, but by the evening of October 7th I predicted that this fiasco would eventually be attributed primarily to Israeli incompetence and ineptitude.


3 posted on 12/31/2023 8:04:45 AM PST by Alberta's Child (If something in government doesn’t make sense, you can be sure it makes dollars.)
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To: logi_cal869

Too distracted by video games, porn, being angry with Netanyahu because he wanted to reform the judicial system in Israel.

Was October 7th allowed to happen as a January 6th to put out the fire of street protests opposing Mr. Netanyahu’s gov’t?

Those protesters a threat that made the crowd supporting President Trump on J6 in Washington seem pale by comparison.


4 posted on 12/31/2023 8:05:49 AM PST by Nextrush (FREEDOM IS EVERYBODY'S BUSINESS-REMEMBER REV. NIEMOLLER)
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I bet they knew, but the intel wasn’t correct regarding the magnitude. Perhaps they were expecting a small hostage situation that could later be leveraged for whatever.


5 posted on 12/31/2023 8:08:34 AM PST by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist! )
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To: logi_cal869

It’s a side point, but October 7th would have turned out very differently had Israel trusted its citizens to keep and bear arms.


6 posted on 12/31/2023 8:10:54 AM PST by Leaning Right (The steal is real.)
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To: Nextrush

“Was October 7th allowed to happen”

Prove it or shut up.


7 posted on 12/31/2023 8:13:22 AM PST by Uncle Miltie (Objective: Permanently break the will of the population to ever wage war again.)
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To: logi_cal869

It’s a fair question but the NYT’s answer, like every other word uttered by the Times, subordinates truth to its political agenda. It has deliberately sacrificed its credibility for the cause and is not a reliable source of news.


8 posted on 12/31/2023 8:16:11 AM PST by Spok (It takes a lot of learning to understand how little we know. (Paraphrasing Thomas Sowell.))
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To: Wally_Kalbacken

Or, the Israeli military knew and sacrificing 1200 Israelis to end Hamas once and for all was worth the risk. Granted, this is normal for Israel’s enemies.


9 posted on 12/31/2023 8:17:26 AM PST by EQAndyBuzz (Rudy for Mayor of NYC in 24!)
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To: logi_cal869
But a New York Times investigation found that Israel’s military was undermanned, out of position and so poorly organized that soldiers communicated in impromptu WhatsApp groups and relied on social media posts for targeting information.

If any of this is true, look for the IDF's Kimmel and Short to be court-martialed.

10 posted on 12/31/2023 8:17:50 AM PST by Captain Walker ("It is infinitely better to have a few good Men, than many indifferent ones." - George Washington)
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To: logi_cal869

“But a New York Times investigation” - they have to add six idiots to byline the “investigation”. I love the phrase “A person with ‘knowledge’ of the calls”. I have knowledge of the calls because I read it somewhere else. The NYT is not journalism. It is a very successful Deep State Operation.


11 posted on 12/31/2023 8:26:15 AM PST by silent majority rising (When it is dark enough, men see the stars. Ralph Waldo Emerson)
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To: logi_cal869

“But a New York Times investigation” - they have to add six idiots to byline the “investigation”. I love the phrase “A person with ‘knowledge’ of the calls”. I have knowledge of the calls because I read it somewhere else. The NYT is not journalism. It is a very successful Deep State Operation.


12 posted on 12/31/2023 8:26:35 AM PST by silent majority rising (When it is dark enough, men see the stars. Ralph Waldo Emerson)
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To: logi_cal869

Background:

‘Kaplan Force’ sedition just before Oct. 7

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/382267

The first responsibility for failure

https://www.jns.org/aharon-haliva-has-got-to-go-now/


13 posted on 12/31/2023 8:27:36 AM PST by jjotto ( Blessed are You LORD, who crushes enemies and subdues the wicked.)
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To: Nextrush

All the claims swirling around this seem to be arranged as a way of attacking Netanyahu politically.

There were those reports that Hamas training exercises were reported a full year before Oct 7th.

But it should be noted that Yair Lapid was PM one year before Oct 7th and Naftali Bennett was PM one year before that. Are we to pretend those two had nothing to do with IDF preparedness?


14 posted on 12/31/2023 8:28:48 AM PST by ChronicMA
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To: silent majority rising

Of course. I didn’t label it ‘journalism’ or, for that matter, post it under ‘news’.

But it does ask many of the right questions. If it takes 6 of them to do it, so be it.

DS is an interesting sidebar: I’ve never believed the narrative behind 9/11 (they had the hijackers’ info/pics long before the attacks and their mistake was to publish them so quickly).

10/7 was either the result of IDF incompetence, or intent.

Choose...


15 posted on 12/31/2023 8:34:02 AM PST by logi_cal869 (-cynicus the "concern troll" a/o 10/03/2018 /!i!! &@$%&*(@ -)
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To: Wally_Kalbacken

I believe that the NYT is playing but a role in a larger game initiated by 10/7 designed to destabilize the Israeli government.

Perhaps for a larger play against them.

The looming question on my mind:

Are the enemies of Israel now from within (as they are here in the US)?


16 posted on 12/31/2023 8:39:27 AM PST by logi_cal869 (-cynicus the "concern troll" a/o 10/03/2018 /!i!! &@$%&*(@ -)
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To: Leaning Right

Indeed.


17 posted on 12/31/2023 8:42:15 AM PST by logi_cal869 (-cynicus the "concern troll" a/o 10/03/2018 /!i!! &@$%&*(@ -)
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To: logi_cal869

No matter what the rumors may be the facts are that Israel has to be the “victim”. Same as in the 1973 war.

Israel can never be the aggressive party, the MSN and the euro trash will always declare her as being the war mongers.


18 posted on 12/31/2023 8:42:32 AM PST by Colo9250
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To: Uncle Miltie

“Was Jan 6 allowed to happen?” is a logical corollary.

But no one is telling YOU to shut up.


19 posted on 12/31/2023 8:43:38 AM PST by logi_cal869 (-cynicus the "concern troll" a/o 10/03/2018 /!i!! &@$%&*(@ -)
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To: ChronicMA

A pretty clear picture of oct. 7 failures is already understood. (See post #13). NYT is desperately trying to confuse things in their war against Netanyahu.


20 posted on 12/31/2023 8:44:27 AM PST by jjotto ( Blessed are You LORD, who crushes enemies and subdues the wicked.)
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