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New evidence strongly suggests Indonesia's Gunung Padang is oldest known pyramid
Phys.org ^ | 11/6/2023 | Bob Yirka

Posted on 11/07/2023 7:22:16 PM PST by logi_cal869

A team of archaeologists, geophysicists, geologists, and paleontologists affiliated with multiple institutions in Indonesia has found evidence showing that Gunung Padang is the oldest known pyramid in the world. In their paper published in the journal Archaeological Prospection, the group describes their multi-year study of the cultural heritage site.

Gunung Padang has for many years been considered a megalithic structure—it sits on top of an extinct volcano in West Java, Indonesia, and is considered by locals to be a sacred site. In 1998, it was declared to be a cultural heritage site. For many years there has been disagreement regarding the nature of the hill. Some have suggested it was made naturally with humans adding some adornments on top, while others have argued that evidence has suggested the hill was all or mostly man-made.

For this new study, the research team conducted a long-term, scientific study of the structure. Over the years 2011 to 2015, they studied the structure using seismic tomography, electrical resistivity tomography and ground-penetrating radar. They also drilled down into the hill and collected core samples that allowed them to use radiocarbon dating techniques to learn the ages of the layers that make up the hill.

In studying all their data, the research team found what they describe as clear evidence showing that the Gunung Padang was made mostly by human hands. The also found evidence showing that the structure was built in stages, thousands of years apart. And, they found that the older parts of the structure were made sometime between 25,000 and 14,000 years ago, making it the oldest known pyramid in the world today.

More specifically, the researchers found evidence of several efforts that together over time, added up to a completed structure. The first consisted of sculpted lava—where builders had carved shapes onto the top of a small, dead volcano. Then, several thousand years later, sometime between 7900 to 6100 BCE, another group added a layer of bricks and rock columns. Some unknown time later, another group added a dirt layer to part of the hill, covering some of the earlier work. Then sometime between 2000 and 1100 BCE yet another group added more top soil, stone terracing, and other elements.

The research team has also found some evidence suggesting there might be some hollow parts inside the structure, suggesting possible hidden chambers. They plan to drill down to them and then lower a camera to see what might be in these areas.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Science
KEYWORDS: archaeoastronomy; archaeology; godsgravesglyphs; gunungpadang; indonesia; megalith; megaliths; paleolithic; pyramid; rocksaroundtheclock
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To: Dr. Franklin

“Disputed”

Yeah, Hawaas is a train wreck embarrassment to the science of archaeology.

They can’t explain the megaliths either there or where they were found to be foundations for Roman structures (believed by ‘heretics’that the Romans simple repurposed the foundations, much like the cultures in South America).

They came even demonstrate the methods to produce the obelisks.


21 posted on 11/08/2023 10:02:14 AM PST by logi_cal869 (-cynicus the "concern troll" a/o 10/03/2018 /!i!! &@$%&*(@ -)
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To: logi_cal869
Yeah, Hawaas is a train wreck embarrassment to the science of archaeology.

What contributions have Muslims made to science? There must be some, but I don't know of any. Authoritarian countries have problems with vigorous academic debate about challenging orthodoxy. It's a problem in the West too, but not as bad. Eventually, the upstarts can carry the day in the West, but not so much in the East.
22 posted on 11/08/2023 10:09:40 AM PST by Dr. Franklin ("A republic, if you can keep it." )
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To: Dr. Franklin

The contention is that the **moat walls** around the Monument have vertical weathering - the Monument itself only has horizontal weathering.

Your contention is made by people who have never been allowed into the moat and have only seen images. Like the hippy geologist character.

The Giza complex was build as a unit incorporating geometry based on Golden Sections and Triangles, and incorporates Fibonacci configurations, not a bunch of randomly placed monuments.

Menkaure is supposed to be the youngest pyramid, but based on Optical Thermoluminescence dating, it is **older** than the dates accepted for the other two.

“Stating that the smallest pyramid at Giza is the youngest rather proves the point that largest pyramids are the oldest” - no it does not. Logical fallacy- that’s an assumption, not a fact.


23 posted on 11/08/2023 10:32:21 AM PST by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now its your turn)
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To: PIF
The contention is that the **moat walls** around the Monument have vertical weathering - the Monument itself only has horizontal weathering.
Your contention is made by people who have never been allowed into the moat and have only seen images. Like the hippy geologist character.


Well, not that its the best source but WP has a picture of the Great Sphinx of Giza along with the caption, "Vertical weathering on the body of the Sphinx":
Sphinx water erosion hypothesis
It also notes that the weathering of the head and neck was repaired in the 1920s. Nice straw man argument, but it doesn't work.

Menkaure is supposed to be the youngest pyramid, but based on Optical Thermoluminescence dating, it is **older** than the dates accepted for the other two.

Well why weren't the larger two pyramids at Giza tested scientifically for their age? Or were they tested, but the results haven't been released because the science doesn't agree with the "experts"?

no it does not. Logical fallacy- that’s an assumption, not a fact.

It was your statement, and therefore, your fallacy if any. That begs the question as to why there was no testing of the larger two pyramids to scientifically determine their age?


24 posted on 11/08/2023 10:59:12 AM PST by Dr. Franklin ("A republic, if you can keep it." )
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To: Dr. Franklin

Well why weren’t the larger two pyramids at Giza tested scientifically for their age?


Because as I explained it is not allowed. take it up with the Egyptian Antiquities Department. Its an Egyptian law instituted by Zwais.

The WP image is mislabeled; it shows horizontal weathering.


25 posted on 11/08/2023 11:42:02 AM PST by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now its your turn)
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To: PIF
Your contention is made by people who have never been allowed into the moat and have only seen images. Like the hippy geologist character.

An while we are at it, why not scientifically test the Great Sphinx to determine its age just like the Menkaure pyramid? That should end the debate, right? Was it tested but the results don't agree with the experts, so it hasn't been released to the public?
26 posted on 11/08/2023 11:42:32 AM PST by Dr. Franklin ("A republic, if you can keep it." )
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To: Dr. Franklin

If you read the comments you will discover the statement is yours, not mine.

Your #20 comment says:

Which does not address how old the Great Pyramid, and the slightly shorter, but equally elevated above sea level, pyramid of Khafre.

**Stating that the smallest pyramid at Giza is the youngest rather proves the point that largest pyramids are the oldest.**

This defies human history which documents that smaller buildings and structures like bridges predate large constructions. The latest and greatest technology creates larger constructions, but not with the pyramids of Giza. That is very strange. Still more curious is that the pyramids at Giza are built exactly where the longest latitude of land meets the longest longitude of land on earth:

So stop trolling please.


27 posted on 11/08/2023 11:47:07 AM PST by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now its your turn)
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To: Dr. Franklin

How many times do I have to tell you that all testing has to be done in Egypt and therefore OT testing cannot be done in Egypt because they do not have the millions for the equipment or the training to do the test.


28 posted on 11/08/2023 11:50:42 AM PST by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now its your turn)
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To: texas booster; logi_cal869
Sundaland
29 posted on 11/10/2023 9:50:07 AM PST by blam
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To: blam

I was aware of Sundaland, but never saw that post.

BFL

THANKS!


30 posted on 11/10/2023 1:33:40 PM PST by logi_cal869 (-cynicus the "concern troll" a/o 10/03/2018 /!i!! &@$%&*(@ -)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
Fair Wind to Java
31 posted on 11/11/2023 5:21:37 PM PST by Max in Utah (A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within.)
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To: Max in Utah

More people live on the island of Java than live in the largest country in the world, Russia.


32 posted on 11/12/2023 9:51:39 AM PST by blam
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To: logi_cal869; SunkenCiv

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/20/science/indonesia-oldest-pyramid-gunung-padang.html


33 posted on 03/22/2024 8:11:26 AM PDT by BenLurkin (The above is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion, or satire, or both.)
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