Skip to comments.
The Trojan War: History or Myth?
Greek Reporter ^
| June 16, 2023
| Philip Chrysopoulos
Posted on 06/19/2023 2:49:54 PM PDT by nickcarraway
The Trojan War is so vividly described in Homer’s Iliad that it is considered by many to be historical fact and not simply the subject of an epic poem.
Troy, an ancient, wealthy city in Asia Minor was ruled by King Priam whose son Paris was invited to judge which of the goddesses—Aphrodite, Hera, or Athena—was entitled to be called the most beautiful.
Aphrodite promised Paris to grant him the most beautiful woman in the world, who was Helen, wife of Menelaus, the king of Sparta. Paris stole Helen, and they eloped to Troy.
To recover Helen, the Greeks launched a great expedition under the overall command of Menelaus’s brother, Agamemnon, the king of Mycenae.
The Greek Army under the command of the charismatic Achilles besieged Troy for ten years and finally sacked the city with the cunning use of the Trojan Horse.
Grecian Delight supports Greece The account of the Trojan War in the Iliad is an epic poem written five centuries after the supposed war; in the ensuing centuries, it has generated lengthy discourse among historians and scholars.
The question has been whether the Trojan War was real or a myth loosely based on some historical facts.
Myth and reality of Troy In ancient Greek history, myth is often interwoven with reality, insofar as the gods interfere in the world of mortals in everyday life.
It is hard to view the Trojan War in historical terms. Some of the heroes of the war described in the Iliad are demi-gods, not mere mortals with godlike qualities.
Helen, the most beautiful woman, for instance, is the daughter of Zeus who disguised himself as a swan and raped her mother, Leda. Achilles and Paris are directly guided by the gods throughout the epic poem.
The gods also supported the two sides: Hera, Athena and Poseidon were for the Greeks, while Aphrodite, Apollo and Ares sided with the Trojans.
Then, there is the ten-year siege of Troy. At the time, at around 1200-1100 BC, even the strongest cities could only hold out for a few months, let alone a decade.
Recent excavations have shown that ancient Troy truly was a significant Bronze Age city dating back to the 12th century BC.
The charred debris and scattered skeletons are evidence that the city was destroyed during wartime. Most likely, Homer used the destroyed city as the setting for his epic poem.
Barry Strauss, a professor of History and Classics at Cornell University, and author of The Trojan War: A New History questions the original Troy myth.
Specifically, Strauss questioned whether the ruined city was the splendid city described by Homer, whether it was the setting for the Trojan War, and if the Greeks actually besieged the city.
New excavations since 1988 have proved that Troy did exist and was indeed a large city, about 75 acres in size, surrounded by fields of wheat. Furthermore, they provided evidence that in 1200 BC the city was in its heyday.
There is more evidence of the above coming from Hittite texts. In these documents, the city that Homer calls Troy, or Ilion, is referred to as Taruisa or Wilusa, and in the early form of the Greek language, “Ilion” was rendered as “Wilion.”
Trojan War iliad Achilles tending Patroclus’ wound, as described in the Iliad. Attic kylix from circa 500 BC. Public Domain Were the Trojans Greeks? Earlier scholars thought that the Trojans were Greeks, like the men who laid siege to their city. The names of Patroclus, Hector, Helen and others in the Iliad is suggestive of this.
However, new evidence suggests that the urban plan of Troy looks less like that of a Greek city and more like an Anatolian city.
Troy’s combination of citadel and lower town, its house and wall architecture, and its religious and burial practices are all typically Anatolian. So is much of its discovered pottery.
Also, new documents suggest that most Trojans spoke a language closely related to Hittite and that Troy was a Hittite ally. And the Hittites were enemies of the Greeks.
The Greeks wanted to expand their territory, and as a people surrounded by water, they built some of history’s first warships.
They explored the land across the Aegean looking for new territories, either as merchants or as potential conquerors.
Around 1400 BC, they conquered Crete, the home of the Minoan civilization. They also conquered the southwestern Aegean islands and the city of Miletus on the coast of Anatolia.
In the 13th century, they stirred up a rebellion against the Hittites of western Anatolia. In the 12th century, they took over the islands of the northeastern Aegean across from Troy.
In the 11th century, they joined with the “Sea Peoples,” who descended first on Cyprus and then on the Levant and Egypt, finally settling in the Philistine country, today’s coastal Israel.
According to Strauss, the Trojan War probably took place sometime between 1230 and 1180 BC, more likely between 1210 and 1180.
At that latter date, the city of Troy was destroyed by a raging fire. The findings of arrowheads, spearheads, and sling stones—along with unburied human bones—suggest that the city was sacked with great violence.
Moreover, the towns around Troy seem to have been abandoned around 1200 BC, consistent with an invasion, as recent archaeological findings indicate.
Further indications about the importance of Troy are the exploration of the site by later ancient figures, such as Alexander the Great and the Roman Emperor Augustus.
The citadel was also enlarged later for the erection of Greek and Roman temples, a process that tragically destroyed layers of Bronze Age remains. The destruction was continued in later centuries by tourists and looters.
Strauss also argues against historians who claim that since great ancient Greek palaces like Mycenae and Pylos were destroyed around 1180 BC, how could the Greeks attack Troy between 1210 and 1180?
The professor counterargues that history is full of sudden reversals. Furthermore, the Trojan War was followed by wars and chaos in the Greek homeland.
Was the Trojan War real? University of Queensland researcher Trevor Bryce in his book The Trojans and their Neighbours (Routledge, 2006) tries to address the question about whether or not there really was a Troy and a Trojan War.
The only written documentation found at the site where Troy is believed to be, date back to before the 8th century BC. It is a seal written in a language called Luwian, the seal being perhaps brought to Troy from elsewhere in today’s Turkey. The topography of the city as told in the legend matches that of a real-life city, and people at Homer’s time also believed this to be Troy.
Certain archaeologists argue that the city was destroyed by earthquakes at the time of the Trojan War and later may have received people from southeastern Europe rather than Greece.
“At one end of the spectrum of opinion is the conviction that there was indeed a war and that it was pretty much as the poet described it,” Bryce wrote.
“From that we pass through varying degrees of [skepticism] and agnosticism to the other end of the spectrum where the tradition is consigned wholly to the realm of fantasy,” Bryce added.
The ancient Greeks needed Trojan War to be real For author, classist, and critic Daisy Dunn, Homer’s Iliad was a vivid account of a real war because Greeks of the time needed it to be so. In the grim world they lived in, they needed to escape into a world of heroes and great deeds.
Dunn wrote on BBC.com (Culture):
The Greeks found in the legacy of the Trojan War an explanation for the bloody and inferior world in which they lived. Achilles and Odysseus had inhabited an age of heroes.
Their age had now died, leaving behind it all the bloodthirstiness, but none of the heroism or martial excellence of the Trojan War. Even the immediate aftermath of the war was full of violence.
Whether the Trojan War really happened or not is a moot point thirty-three centuries later. What is important is that the legend of the brave Greeks who besieged Troy and conquered it by using the Trojan Horse inspired generation upon generation, as does Homer’s Iliad, which remains one of the greatest works of world literature and a masterpiece of our intangible cultural heritage.
TOPICS: Books/Literature; History; Hobbies
KEYWORDS: donateforjim; godsgravesglyphs; greece; historyormyth; trojanwar; turkey
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20, 21-40 last
To: Claud
I expect so, but then today’s media has inherited a lot of spin too.
21
posted on
06/19/2023 3:51:26 PM PDT
by
dblshot
To: dblshot
And which side do you think Homer was on?
22
posted on
06/19/2023 4:03:20 PM PDT
by
sphinx
Most of the rest of the keywords, sorted:
- The Trojan War: History or Myth? [06/19/2023]
- Was Homer Real? [03/13/2023]
- Great Battles: Was there a Trojan War? Recent Excavations at Troy [01/04/2023]
- Circe, the First Witch of Greek Mythology [01/03/2023]
- Stone Giant Unearthed Among God Heads At Aizanoi [12/31/2022]
- Incredibly 'rare' Roman mosaic depicting the Trojan War is found in Syria [10/13/2022]
- Did the Romans Know How Old the Pyramids Were? [08/14/2022]
- Latest find in Turkey's Ayasuluk Hill links Hittites to Ephesus [07/09/2022]
- 1,500-year-old Roman mosaic depicting battle from Homer's Iliad that was found by chance in a farmer's field is revealed to be the FIRST of its kind in UK [11/24/2021]
- Did archaeologists find the Trojan Horse? [08/11/2021]
- Did Archaeologists Find the Trojan Horse? [08/11/2021]
- Mediterranean silver likely traded during the Trojan War, the founding of Rome [07/19/2021]
- David Rohl : Greek Dark Age, Hyksos Invasion and Sea Peoples [04/14/2021]
- New Evidence Supports Modern Greeks Having DNA of Ancient Mycenaeans [06/28/2020]
- Who are the Luwians? [07/16/2019]
- Archaeological evidence shows Minoans used violence and were prepared for war [03/06/2019]
- 6 Amazing Artifacts with Ancient Greek Mythology Scenes Discovered in Bulgaria [01/07/2019]
- New BBC TV series "Troy: A Fall of a City" shows Achilles as African [12/28/2018]
- Greek Authorities Say Lost Ancient City of Tenea Located [11/13/2018]
- 3,200-Year-Old Cyclopean Masonry Fortress... Ancient Thrace Was Part of Mycenaean Civilization [tr] [10/27/2018]
- Traces of Iron Age wars found on double-skin wall [09/23/2018]
- Homer Odyssey: Oldest extract discovered on clay tablet [07/11/2018]
- New study finds: Ancient Mycenaean civilization might have collapsed due to uprising or invasion [04/15/2018]
- Famed Archaeologist 'Discovered' His Own Fakes at 9,000-Year-Old Settlement [03/19/2018]
- 'Homer can help you': War veterans use ancient epics to cope [03/14/2018]
- The First English Translation of 'The Odyssey' by a Woman Was Worth the Wait [11/17/2017]
- Why Vessey Turned Two Swedes Into Hittites [08/26/2016]
- Throne of Homer's hero is unearthed [06/18/2016]
- Devastating 'World War ZERO' destroyed ancient civilisations and plunged Europe into a dark age [05/15/2016]
- World War Zero brought down mystery civilisation of 'sea people' [05/13/2016]
- Archaeologist Claims to Have Unlocked Phaistos Disk Mystery [again] [12/20/2015]
- Grave of 'Griffin Warrior' at Pylos Could Be a Gateway to Civilizations [10/27/2015]
- Archaeologists discover secret tunnel in ancient Hittite castle [10/21/2015]
- Archaeologists making exciting discoveries in Laconia [08/28/2015]
- Ancient Greek palace unearthed near Sparta dates back to 17th century BC [08/27/2015]
- Symbols of Hittite goddess of sexuality found on 4,000-year-old tablet discovered in central Turkey [08/15/2015]
- Splendid Strength (Review: The Iliad, Translated by Peter Green) [06/07/2015]
- The Cult of Amun [ancient Egypt and Nubia] [05/08/2015]
- Learning the Lessons from the Fall of Troy [04/24/2015]
- Author Says a Whole Culture -- Not a Single 'Homer' -- Wrote 'Iliad,' 'Odyssey' [01/05/2015]
- The Minoans were Caucasian [07/12/2014]
- Archaeologists Excavate Lower City of Mycenae [06/06/2014]
- Archaeologists Excavate for Archaic Greek City of Tenea [05/25/2014]
- The Greek Age of Bronze -- Middle Helmets [04/24/2014]
- Ancient Palace's Painted Floors Display Bronze-Age Creativity [01/06/2014]
- Minoan Frescoes at Tel Kabri: Aegean Art in Bronze Age Israel [07/21/2013]
- Incredible, Epic Genes: Dating The Iliad [03/01/2013]
- Incredible, Epic Genes: Dating The Iliad [03/01/2013]
- Bust of Memnon: Images of Blacks in Ancient Greece [01/05/2013]
- Ancient city of Troy rebranded itself after war [12/24/2012]
- La Bastida unearths 4,200-year-old fortification, unique in continental Europe [10/06/2012]
- Archeologists unearth extraordinary human sculpture in Turkey [ Suppiluliuma ] [07/30/2012]
- New Indo-European Language Discovered [06/21/2012]
- Rare Cuneiform Script Found on Island of Malta [12/24/2011]
- Lost city found in Turkey: It is older than Troy [09/27/2011]
- Bulgarian Archaeology Finds Said to Rewrite History of Black Sea Sailing [09/14/2011]
- Archaeologists uncover 3,000-year-old lion adorning citadel gate complex in Turkey [08/09/2011]
- Is an Eclipse Described in the Odyssey (and does it date the return of Odysseus to Penelope) [07/08/2011]
- The War that Killed Achilles by Caroline Alexander [reviews] [12/23/2010]
- Project Troia -- Bronze Age Troy Just Keeps on Growing [10/08/2010]
- Two tumuluses found in Turkey's ancient Daskyleion [09/24/2010]
- Greek Archaeologists Claim They Discovered Odysseus' Palace [08/25/2010]
- Greece. They found the palace belonging to one of the Heroes of the Iliad? [Egyptian artifact, 2006] [07/30/2010]
- Ancient Greek town from where ships were launched for Troy unearthed [07/16/2010]
- Has the Sarcophagus of Paris, Prince of Troy, Been Found? [07/16/2010]
- Ancient Chronography, Eratosthenes and the Dating of the Fall of Troy [abstract] [07/14/2010]
- Diggers discover Phoenician army complex in Cyprus [ Trojan War connection ] [06/18/2010]
- 'Palestine existed in Syria, Turkey' [inhabited by Philistines] [05/11/2010]
- In the footsteps of the Bronze Men [ the Carians in Egypt ] [04/06/2010]
- Could museum's gold be from ancient Troy? [02/02/2010]
- Two-and-a-Half Millennia Don't Change Much [01/29/2010]
- Excavations in Ancient Tegea [12/04/2009]
- 5,000-year-old Venus figure found in Canakkale [10/02/2009]
- "The Catastrophe" What the End of Bronze-Age Civilization Means for Modern Times [09/28/2009]
- Archaeologists find suspected Trojan war-era couple [09/22/2009]
- Archaeology meets mythology in Mycenean Pylos (King Nestor) [09/11/2009]
- University of Toronto archaeologists find...cuneiform tablets in 2,700-year old Turkish temple [08/10/2009]
- Video: Public Plan Will Kill Private Insurance [07/17/2009]
- Phaistos Disk: Greek or Luwian? [06/25/2009]
- Ancient Greece's 'global warming' [05/08/2009]
- Cities suffering pain of loss (RC Diocese of Albany releases list of 33 parish closings) [01/18/2009]
- Diocese will have details of closings next weekend [01/11/2009]
- Diocese to close, merge worship sites (RC Diocese of Albany) [01/08/2009]
- Ancient Group Believed Departed Souls Lived in Stone Monuments [11/18/2008]
- Trojan arrows and unique seals from Perperikon stand out in archaeological summer '08 [11/03/2008]
- Grog of the Greeks [ barley beer, honey mead, retsina wine ] [10/20/2008]
- 'The Odyssey' and 'The Iliad' are giving up new secrets about the ancient world [10/03/2008]
- Defences at Troy reveal larger town [ news finally reaches UK ] [09/19/2008]
- Who Were the Hurrians? [06/25/2008]
- Scientists calculate the exact date of the Trojan horse using eclipse in Homer [06/24/2008]
- Ancient Eclipse Found in "The Odyssey," Scientists Say [06/23/2008]
- Ancient Tomb Found On Greek Island [03/05/2008]
- Sick Rams Used As Ancient Bioweapons [11/29/2007]
- Troy Story [The Straight Dope] [07/18/2007]
- 2,700-Year-Old Fabric Found in Greece [05/10/2007]
- Mycenaean and Hittite Diplomatic Correspondence: Fact and Fiction [ PDF file ] [05/03/2007]
- Classical Treasures, Bathed in a New Light [ Met Museum, NYC, Roman and Greek classics ] [05/02/2007]
- Engineers To Help Find Homer's Itacha [03/27/2007]
- French Explorer's Bad Luck In Syria Avenged At Last (Hittites) [10/17/2006]
- Drill hole begins Homeric quest [10/11/2006]
- Schliemann's search for the 'first city' [09/30/2006]
- Greek Archaeologists Confirm Authenticity Of 'Theseus Ring' [08/03/2006]
- Archaeologists Seek Hints On 4,000-Year-Old (Thracian) Civilization In Tekirdað [07/19/2006]
- An epic battle on Homer's gender [07/02/2006]
- Virgil's Demi-God City 'Found' [04/07/2006]
- Odyssey's End? The Search for Ancient Ithaca [04/02/2006]
- Archaeologist Links Ancient Palace, Ajax [03/29/2006]
- Palace Of Homer's Hero Rises Out Of Myths [03/28/2006]
- Ancient coffin with scenes from Homer's poems unearthed in Cyprus [03/20/2006]
- Archaeologists say the Urartians failed to overcome harsh winter conditions [03/03/2006]
- Helen Of Troy Existed? [10/18/2005]
- Helen of Troy: Goddess, Princess, Whore [10/09/2005]
- Search Locates Homer's Ithaca [09/29/2005]
- Archeologists make historic discovery (Tomb of Odysseus) [09/23/2005]
- Vanished, Under Force of Time and an Inconstant Earth [09/06/2005]
- Bulgarian Archaeologists Uncover Treasure Of Thousands Of Golden Ornaments [08/17/2005]
- Unlocking the Power of Myth [08/12/2005]
- Where Did The Etruscans Come From? [08/06/2005]
- Archaeologists Unearth Part Of 3,500 Year-Old Gold Mask (Orpheus) [06/24/2005]
- Research To Investigate Links Between Ancient Greeks And Modern Science Fiction [06/08/2005]
- Mycenaean Port of Athens Found? [04/29/2005]
- Mycenaean Port Of Athens Found [04/28/2005]
- Papyrus Reveals New Clues to Ancient World (New Sophocles, Lucian: More) [04/28/2005]
- Russian Culture Official Suggests Legendary Gold Collection From Troy Unlikely be Returned Germany [02/27/2005]
- In Search of the Real Troy [02/20/2005]
- The Warriors Of Paros [12/19/2004]
- Arzawa [11/26/2004]
- Quarry, Setting and Team Marks: The Carian Connection [10/08/2004]
- The Linear B Tablets and Mycenaean Social, Political, and Economic Organization [08/29/2004]
- Laocoön and His Son [08/28/2004]
- The Argonaut Epos and Bronze Age Economic History [08/25/2004]
- Ireland Is Lost Island of Atlantis, Says Scientist [08/06/2004]
- Amazon Warrior Women [08/04/2004]
- Was There a Trojan War? [07/29/2004]
- Non-Attic Characters [07/18/2004]
- 50 Ancient Tombs Uncovered (1400BC, Crete) [07/18/2004]
- Inscription in Carian and Greek [07/17/2004]
- Victor Davis Hanson: The Ancient Greeks -- Were they like us at all? [05/04/2004]
- The Truth About An Epic Tale Of Love, War And Greed (Troy) [03/25/2004]
- The tiniest human [01/10/2004]
- Etruscan Demons, Monsters Unearthed [11/05/2003]
- Scientists Say Warfare Began After People Formed Villages [09/16/2003]
- Geologists investigate Trojan battlefield [02/07/2003]
- Geologists Show Homer Got It Right [01/29/2003]
- Was Troy a Metropolis? Homer Isn't Talking [10/21/2002]
- Evidence for Major Impact Events in the late Third Millennium BC [09/04/2002]
- Dig Unearths Mycenaean 'Homeric Capital' [04/17/2002]
- Recent Finds Prove That Homer's Stories Were More Than Myth [02/24/2002]
- So Who Is Buried in Midas's Tomb? [12/24/2001]
23
posted on
06/19/2023 4:17:18 PM PDT
by
SunkenCiv
(Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
To: nickcarraway; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 21twelve; 24Karet; ...
Thanks nickcarraway.
24
posted on
06/19/2023 4:18:08 PM PDT
by
SunkenCiv
(Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
To: nickcarraway
Whether the Trojan War really happened or not is a moot point Sounds a lot like today's Rats, saying history is irrelevant.
"What difference at this point does it make?"
25
posted on
06/19/2023 4:21:22 PM PDT
by
repentant_pundit
(http://www.LibertyLifeboat.org)
To: nickcarraway
It’s always real.
It’s always fake.
Somebody did something.
Somebody else embellished it.
26
posted on
06/19/2023 4:22:39 PM PDT
by
x
To: repentant_pundit
"Sounds a lot like today's Rats, saying history is irrelevant." Lots of kids these days are being taught about Trojans as early as 1st or 2nd grade
To: nickcarraway
28
posted on
06/19/2023 4:33:16 PM PDT
by
dfwgator
(Endut! Hoch Hech!)
To: nickcarraway
Then there’s the idiot with a whole string of YouTube videos “proving” that the Roman Empire never existed.
29
posted on
06/19/2023 4:47:18 PM PDT
by
Seruzawa
("The Political left is the Garden of Eden of incompetence" - Marx the Smarter (Groucho))
To: nickcarraway
Not willing to read a book for “breaking news” of an ancient war.
Historian Josephus did tell of the Trojans.
30
posted on
06/19/2023 5:00:22 PM PDT
by
mountainlion
(Live well those that did not make it back.)
To: Billthedrill
To: mountainlion
It takes a long time to recieve news from the front lines...
To: sphinx
33
posted on
06/19/2023 5:17:29 PM PDT
by
dblshot
To: nickcarraway
Heinrich Schliemann considered that the stories about Troy contained a lot of fact. Then he went looking with shovels and other heavy equipment.
This is well-known and established.
BTW, HS found lots of stuff that mostly proves the reliability of Homer’s story.
Fascinating.
To: nickcarraway
I’m struggling with the description of 75 acres being a “large city”. Unless I’m terribly mistaken, that would be a square about 0.3 miles on each side...
To: dblshot
36
posted on
06/19/2023 6:01:49 PM PDT
by
Bratch
To: nickcarraway
Helen, the most beautiful woman, for instance, is the daughter of Zeus who disguised himself as a swan and raped her mother, Leda.
Aside from beauty and swans, the Iliad does offer distinct warnings about modern Hollywood and DC morality.
37
posted on
06/19/2023 6:16:11 PM PDT
by
nicollo
("I said no!")
To: Joe 6-pack
“Lots of kids these days are being taught about Trojans as early as 1st or 2nd grade”
I see what you did here ...
38
posted on
06/19/2023 10:50:33 PM PDT
by
flaglady47
(Trump knows where all the bodies lie - just sayin.....)
To: nickcarraway
Been reading this book. Fascinating analysis
The author also believes that the story about Homer's Trojan War story is pretty fictional.
39
posted on
06/20/2023 3:53:25 AM PDT
by
COBOL2Java
("Life without liberty is like a body without spirit." - Kahlil Gibran)
To: Larry Lucido
It’s Constantinople in my heart. I’ve stood on the walls in the past and looked out and imagined that day in 1453 when the city fell to the Ottomans.
40
posted on
06/20/2023 4:15:30 AM PDT
by
Kozak
(Слава Україні Герояам Слава. RuZZia is a terrorist state.)
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20, 21-40 last
Disclaimer:
Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual
posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its
management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the
exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson