Posted on 03/29/2023 12:09:01 PM PDT by nickcarraway
It’s been a little over a year since Keith Zipprich lost his wife, Jo, to cancer.
Jo battled that cancer for many months, as bills stacked up for those many treatments.
Keith said Jo’s insurance covered most of the costs, and she was paying other bills up until the time of her death. But about a year after she died, Keith said he was surprised when he, himself, was slapped with a lawsuit from a debt collector trying to collect on one of Jo’s unpaid bills with Uintah Basin Healthcare.
“This bill came to me in forms of a lawsuit,” Keith said. “By the time this goes all through court, they’re talking to over $3,000.”
Jo died penny-less, Keith said. She had no estate. So now, the hospital is coming after him for bills that are not his.
When he called the collection agency listed on the lawsuit, he said he was told that he’s responsible to pay for his late-wife’s medical debt under Utah law.
That is, technically, true.
Utah law considers it a “benefit” to the “family unit” when someone goes to the doctor to try and get better. Thus, medical debt is a family expense, and a hospital is free to go after “both spouses or of either of them separately” for such unpaid debts.
Jason Iuliano, who teaches consumer law at the University of Utah, said the law is “absurd.”
Iuliano said the law’s origins go back hundreds of years, to a time before women could own property or enter into contracts.
“It came about as a way for women, in short, to basically buy goods and services and bill them to their husbands because they couldn’t actually enter into the contracts themselves,” he said. “It just doesn’t have a place in modern society.”
More and more states agree. At one point, what is on Utah’s books was the law of the land, but in recent years, 10 states have repealed the law, allowing surviving spouses to be sued personally for unpaid medical debt. A hospital or doctor could go after the estate, but if the estate has nothing, then the hospital cannot collect for the person who didn’t incur the debt, Iuliano said.
Get Gephardt asked Iuliano if there is anything a spouse in Utah can do to avoid getting slapped with the bills themselves if their spouse is terminally ill. The answer is grim.
“Divorce your spouse, or to move out of the house and no longer cohabitate with your spouse,” he said. “Obviously, both of those are terrible options.”
By email, Uintah Basin Healthcare Vice President Maigen Zobell defended its collection practices, writing, “Uintah Basin Healthcare follows standard legal collection practices and we are confident that our collection agencies do the same.”
Zobell wrote they are “still willing to work with Keith on this matter.”
He added, “It is standard practice that a deceased patient’s spouse is considered responsible for the patient’s remaining debt,” and pointed to previous reporting done by the KSL Investigators on the matter.
In a report from 2020, the KSL Investigators found that, while it is allowed legally, it is not standard practice for all doctors and hospitals. The University of Utah Hospital, for example, made it their policy a few years ago to not go after a surviving spouse for medical bills they incurred before death.
Health care provision is restricted by law. Health care charges should also be restricted by law.
Salesmen generally eat the cost of failed sales attempts very often.
“More and more states agree. At one point, what is on Utah’s books was the law of the land, but in recent years, 10 states have repealed the law, allowing surviving spouses to be sued personally for unpaid medical debt. A hospital or doctor could go after the estate, but if the estate has nothing, then the hospital cannot collect for the person who didn’t incur the debt, Iuliano said.”
Seems like hospitals and doctors in those states would have to cut off people who have no means of paying for services they’d like to receive. Unless of course they are bailed out by the public via socialism.
Well, that’s what I mean. I’m heavily on the side of the medical providers. They already deeply discount these services, and insurance barely covers their costs with the contracted prices.
Yep it's $3,000, not $30,000 or $300,000
Laypeople rely on experts to determine service suitability.
The services failed apparently.
Agree. Especially if he has negotiated or contracted with the insurance company in the past. If so, he is liable.
If I lost my wife to cancer, a $3,000 unpaid hospital bill would be among the least of my worries. I’d find a way to get that paid in her memory. Even if I had to get an extra job for a while to pay for it (not sure how old this guy is).
New York State Medicaid took $1955 from my uncle’s estate. I don’t think it was for nursing home care.
It may have enable him to get care or coverage at Medicaid pricing.
Forced insurance will do that.
“This bill came to me in forms of a lawsuit,” Keith said. “By the time this goes all through court, they’re talking to over $3,000.”
A couple years ago my Great Aunt had to be put in a Nursing Home, her son was long haul truck driver and was often on the road, so I agreed to help him out. Went to the nursing facility, they pulled me into a room and started shoving papers in front of him and telling me I had to sign them. I kept telling them I was only helping her son and his name should be on them, but they were very insistent. Finally, I just grabbed the papers and told them I would need to read them over and I would bring them back tomorrow. They weren't happy with that but finally let me leave. Good thing I did read them over! I was basically signing a document saying I would agree to be financially responsible for ALL her medical debts and nursing expenses going forward that weren't covered by Medicare or Insurance. And they literally tried shoving it in front of me and telling me it was "standard paperwork" and demanded I sign before I had a clue what I was signing.
In colonial Philadelphia it was common to run an ad to disclaim responsibility for a wife’s purchases.
My wife was a Clinic Administrator with 48 direct reporting staff and 13 physicians and I will tell you that the physicians have no idea what a patient is being charged in most cases.
We had a family member with a cardiac event (not a heart attack) in the hospital overnight for a total of 23 hours and the bill a decade ago was $34,000. The Cardiologist had mentioned later the advice of "just go to the hospital" and when I said the cost, even covered by insurance, was a concern and told him the figure, he was taken aback.
“It wouldn’t be as much of an issue if medical costs weren’t 10x what they should be.”
That and medical prices are never the same twice. Mirrors and shadows of penumbras.
“I’m torn on this. Services were rendered and the recipient is on the hook for them. I’ve been in the medical field and revenue goes to pay largely for employees and their benefits, including insurance.”
This is simple not true. Hospitals get most of their money by over charging insurance companies. I had chemo port installed. A 3-hour max out patient procedure. They charge Medicare and my insurance $53,000 dollars. Really?
This hospital likely collected 100s of thousands of dollars for her care from insurance and are worried about hounding him for $3000.
While in the hospital for my cancer surgery they ran dozens of tests that I likely didn’t need. Tests that had nothing to do with cancer and all came back negative.
.
I wrote back and said payment arrangements have already been made and congratulations on p*$$ing away the goodwill that might have resulted in a donation many times that amount.
The law in Florida is otherwise.
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