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Here's the truth on Ukraine, as far as I can tell
American Thinker ^ | 9 Mar, 2022 | Dan Truitt

Posted on 03/09/2022 4:20:32 AM PST by MtnClimber

First, and most importantly, virtually no one in the US has got this right, including conservative outlets and pundits. Putin's a thug, but he's an excellent politician and a strong leader. And he’s not crazy, as some seem to surmise. He is a cold, calculating, strategic thinker who has disciplined his mind and body for decades. He’s a Russia first guy. Think Donald Trump minus all that hot air, Big Macs, and add a willingness to off his enemies.

We promised Russia we would not expand NATO when the Soviet Union fell. We went back on that promise and incorporated almost the entire Eastern Bloc into NATO.

Then after 9/11, Bush II unilaterally cancelled the '72 ABM treaty, which until then had frozen nuclear weapon development in the Soviet Union and the US, effectively ending the arms race. Bush's rationale was that we needed to develop new nuclear weapon tech to defeat terrorism. Like we were going to nuke Osama Bin Laden.

Bush's rationale for NATO expansion was also terrorism. So, Bush triggered a fresh arms race. Bush was a decent man, but the more time goes by, the more he looks like an absolute moron to me.

Ukraine belonged to Russia for centuries. They have almost identical cultures and languages. Kiev used to be the capital of Russia. Putin's war is a war of defense. Russia (rightly, in my view) feels threatened by NATO expansion. Russia is a mainly land-based, continental power which desires a buffer with the West. Ukraine serves that purpose perfectly.

The US triggered a coup d'état in Ukraine in 2014, overthrowing the democratically elected president who was Russia friendly, and installing a pro-western, pro-NATO leader. Putin has had his eye on Ukraine ever since but dared not do anything when Trump was in power

(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...


TOPICS: Military/Veterans; Society
KEYWORDS: nato; putin; russia; ukraine
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To: MtnClimber

I never liked or trusted Vlad, but I gave him credit for being smarter that THIS


41 posted on 03/09/2022 5:16:48 AM PST by SMARTY (Republics decline into democracies & democracies degenerate into despotisms. Aristotle)
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To: Susquehanna Patriot; DesertRhino
does not make those FReepers Putin lovers, sympathizers, apologists, useful idiots, etc.

Read the OP and the Posters in this thread.

The OP supports Russian mythology about NATO and blames us for pissing off Putin.

Another poster posted a photo trying to claim Ukraine is indeed a Nazi country.

Read what is going on in this forum: they are not just saying "we shouldn't be involved," they are apologizing for the terrorist nation of Russia, an ally of every other terror nation and tyranny on planet Earth, from China and North Korea to Iran and the Latin American communists.

They are full on spreading Russian propaganda on this website, and some are even deliberately lying to do so, such as DesertRhino. Not just deceived, but actively engaging in things they know are lies but repeat them anyway.

These are absolutely Putinists and deserve the label.

what do you think we should do with Ukraine

I have never advocated bombing Russia or sending troops to Ukraine.

I like the sanctions but I do not know if they are going to crush our economy or not, or what is too much or too little.

I like the weapons being sent to Ukraine, and we should have been sending more weapons to them for weeks prior to this instead of trying to arm them at the last minute.

42 posted on 03/09/2022 5:18:21 AM PST by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: MtnClimber
He is a cold, calculating, strategic thinker who has disciplined his mind and body for decades.

I think Truitt has a crush.

43 posted on 03/09/2022 5:19:45 AM PST by tnlibertarian
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To: USS Alaska; no-to-illegals; Nifster
no-to-illegals: Please re-read the first paragraph

USS Alaska: The first paragraph puts President Trump in a great position, great leader, patriot, genius, yeah he eats Big Macs and bloviates, but we all know that is correct.

The author clearly doesn't "hate" President Trump.

You are too sensitive.

Thank you - that's a great, factual summary. (It's better than I would have written, because I might have replaced "too sensitive" with "a snowflake", and that might have "triggered" somebody unintentionally... ;>)

44 posted on 03/09/2022 5:20:30 AM PST by Who is John Galt? ("...mit Pulver und Blei, Die Gedanken sind frei!")
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To: mac_truck

Mac, there are millions of Russian speaking Ukrainians, many of whom are protesting in mass numbers in the streets of eastern cities, and are killing Russian invaders in large numbers in Kharkiv, which is supposed to be a Russian city that would greet your relatives from Moscow with flowers.

It’s not happening.

The resistance of the Ukrainians has made it obvious what you are: a clown of clowns!


45 posted on 03/09/2022 5:20:31 AM PST by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: MtnClimber

We only get one side of this, and we know it. So the SCARIEST PART, for me at least, was the way so many conservatives became Bidenistas, unquestionably believing the media narrative. I thought I’d never see that day.


46 posted on 03/09/2022 5:22:46 AM PST by BobL (I eat at McDonald's and shop at Walmart, I just don't tell anyone.)
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To: Who is John Galt?

LOL


47 posted on 03/09/2022 5:23:04 AM PST by no-to-illegals (The enemy has US surrounded. May God have mercy on them)
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To: mountainlion
Trump and Putin are not deep state so that is why they are under attack.

This is nonsense. Putin was selected by the KGB. He has killed his opponents in Russia, having them shot to death on his birthday, using the power of the State to send them to jail, and is now threatening to put people in jail for calling the Ukrainian invasion an "invasion."

Russia is allies with every single one of our enemies: China, North Korea, Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, etc.

In what universe can you sit there, with a straight face, and say, "Trump and Putin are not deep state!" Why even mention Putin in the same sentence with Trump at all?

human trafficking

Hello, Russia and China are the centers of international terrorism in the world. They aid and support the Narco terrorists in Latin America (see Red Cocaine by Cliff Kinkaid), operate as a money laundering hub, and their mafias--which are under the control of their intelligence services--operate with the deliberate purpose of spreading human trafficking, drugs and destruction into western countries. It is what they do.

This Q-Tard BS conspiracy about Ukraine is designed to hide who our real enemies are.

48 posted on 03/09/2022 5:24:59 AM PST by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: MtnClimber
"These insights I'm getting from the Greek press (I live here), which is being much more even-handed, from people inside Russia, and from Ukrainians whom I know. I’ve also watched the 4-hour Putin Interview documentary by Oliver Stone, which skewed left but provided a fascinating look at Putin the human being. I repeat: he is not crazy. He has a surprisingly good sense of humor. Just to remind you, I’m not a fan.

"The US can't seem to kick its Cold War habit of looking at Russia as the enemy. The enemy, the real threat, is China..."

Great article!

49 posted on 03/09/2022 5:25:26 AM PST by Who is John Galt? ("...mit Pulver und Blei, Die Gedanken sind frei!")
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To: alexander_busek

One needs to understand one’s enemy whether one agrees with them or not.

The reports have been that Russia invaded Ukraine because it did not want it to become part of NATO. In 2014, it did not want Ukraine to become part of the EU. Of course Russia was meddling in Ukraine in 2014, as were the US and EU. Even Joe Xiden was directly involved assigned by the POTUS, traveled there ... 2nd highest person in all the US. This article takes it further back to “non-binding verbal agreements” between countries, the expansion of NATO into other formerly Soviet countries, and implies NATO continued on with the cold war and not adjusting to a post-cold war world.

Is that a “legitimate” gripe that Russia government might have or just a gripe about the Ukraine? The question does not support Putin’s decision on how to deal with its gripe, but I am not surprised after Xiden’s monumental failure in ealing with the fall of Afghanistan and his public appearances where he makes remarks that he is doing what he is being told to do, etc.


50 posted on 03/09/2022 5:27:28 AM PST by Susquehanna Patriot
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To: joe fonebone
This article is spot on. NATO is made up of the snooty snobs of europe and us. Why the hell does this organization even exist? Let the snooty snobs fight their own damn war
~~~

History
HISTORY
HISTORY!

You never lived through the cold war, did you? I'm betting no.
How about WWII, or even WWI?
Me neither.

NATO is not the league of nations, nor is it the pathetic UN. It's a treaty organization. A move against one is a move against all.
The downside is, a move by Russia, or possibly China, against a NATO nation, would likely start WWIII.... but that is a deterrent (and a very strong one) as well as a risk.
The upside is that we would never see something like 1939 when nobody did anything when Germany invaded Czechoslovakia.

Trump was right. Since the end of the cold war, NATO has atrophied. Member countries just wanted to mail it in, at the least. But it is only strong treaties that will keep current and future military powers in check against aggression.
Ukraine is actually a perfect example. They are NOT protected by NATO.
Poland is, for example. Even if Russia ever dared to invaded poland, my bet is that it will cross the border and stop and blame it on an arms or troop build up. They would not be marching against Warsaw like they did Kyiv.
51 posted on 03/09/2022 5:29:07 AM PST by z3n (Kakistocracy)
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To: z3n

I better beat the correction, since I harped on history. Czechoslovakia was 1938 :)


52 posted on 03/09/2022 5:31:15 AM PST by z3n (Kakistocracy)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Go to the Ukraine and fight if their independence means so much to you.


53 posted on 03/09/2022 5:31:57 AM PST by ohioman
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To: ohioman
Let's think about the post you just replied to:

To sum up, it denied the Russian BS position about NATO.

You reply: "Go to the Ukraine and fight if their rindependence means so much to you."

Can you explain the logical connection between those two posts?

And why is it wrong to support Ukrainian independence?

You might not want sanctions, or military action. But it does not follow from this that it is wrong to support Ukrainian independence.

Are you able, in any rational way, to justify what you just wrote?

54 posted on 03/09/2022 5:36:47 AM PST by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Thanks I got it and I choose to ignore most of them. And thanks for your short answer on what you would propose or support.

Undermining Russia’s invasion is a good tactic but as far as the strategy, the WH is inept, to be kind. The administrative state which is the constant force from one WH to the next ... don’t know if they have the right people in place, or do have the right people in place but they cannot get through to a POTUS who is mentally declining, and it’s the people around him who are influencing him, making the decisions for him. The fact that they have injected more than once the how the war is related to (almost secondary to) their environmental policies while Ukrainians are dying tells me that something is very wrong. Afghanistan failure was the canary in the coal mine for Ukraine ... and China is sitting back ...


55 posted on 03/09/2022 5:42:31 AM PST by Susquehanna Patriot
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To: Who is John Galt?

Are you the author or is the author a friend of yours ? If constructive criticism is not desired please don’t post for constructive criticism. Please be informed


56 posted on 03/09/2022 5:43:10 AM PST by no-to-illegals (The enemy has US surrounded. May God have mercy on them)
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To: z3n

Dude...
I served in the military under jimmah cahtah...
I grew up during the cold war...

Yes, nato is a treaty designed to protect europe from the soviet union.
It had conditions that were to be met.
The only one meeting and exceeding these condition is the US.
If that damn continent cannot or will not meet their obligations under the treaty, then the treaty is null and void.
President Trump attempted to force the snooty snobs to meet the basic (minimal) obligations that they had under the treaty.
He failed.
NATO is a useless redundant organization that is supported almost entirely by the US.
If europe does not want to defend itself, why the hell should WE do it for them?


57 posted on 03/09/2022 5:48:56 AM PST by joe fonebone (And the people said NO! The End)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

👏👏👏👏👏
Bravo. Good to see some here still have operational brains.


58 posted on 03/09/2022 5:51:22 AM PST by Vaden (CAUTION: Defending Putin=Defending Hitler=MAGA Destruction)
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To: MtnClimber

All I can say is, Soros and the “One world” cabal is EVERYONE”S enemy... All the rest of it is just diversion and....noise.


59 posted on 03/09/2022 5:54:59 AM PST by unread (Everything you ever thought was right, fair and just is completely wrong..... I think..(?))
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To: Nifster
True. And now, Vlad is sending Chechen’s into Ukraine to support the Russian forces.

WTF? Urban fighting, (a Chechen forte) will be hell on earth!

He's turning it into a ‘religious’ bloodbath. Chechen's are Muslim and will LOVE killing Ukrainians!

Putting this into the equation is totally malicious and that genie will NEVER go back in the bottle!

60 posted on 03/09/2022 5:56:10 AM PST by SMARTY (Republics decline into democracies & democracies degenerate into despotisms. Aristotle)
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