Posted on 12/04/2021 4:50:53 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
Like the sinking of the Titanic, the assassination of John F. Kennedy has been a subject of fascination for me over the years.
I remember perusing Mom and Dad's copy of the Warren Commision Report with great interest. I remember, earlier than that, repeatedly combing through the National Geographic issue shortly after the assassination and developing a crush on Caroline Kennedy who would have been about my age at that time. In Jr. High School I wrote a short paper based on Mark Lane's assertion of a second assassin or more and conspiracies surrounding the event.
The presentation given here has a way of objectively questioning dependence on the Zapruder film as definitive of the sequence of what happened. Holland pins down the timing at closer to 11 seconds, rather than 6 seconds using sound reasoning.
It takes time to watch, but is worth it. On a side note, this past summer I had the privilege of walking laps around the inside of Pembroke Mall in Virginia Beach with Secret Service Agent Win Lawson's widow (during vacation accompanying my father-in-law for his daily walking exercise). Win is mentioned at some length here, and his stated conviction that there was a gap between the first shot and remaining shots is vindicated by Holland's research.
“while Kennedy’s head wound could have been from a hollow point or soft tipped round.”
No , it to was from a FMJ. The heavy for caliber round nose bullet traveling at about 2000 fps ripped his skull open then changed direction( ricocheting)much like shooting into water at an angle. There were no metal fragments in his head like a expanding bullet would have left behind.
This is a very interesting discussion to which I must return to later.
I know. No real evidence. Just know that Johnson was addicted to power.
Could be VT, very well could be. That would mean an empty case would have been ejected out into the street or grass. I wonder if that bit of evidence, (The ejected case, did anyone pick it up etc. etc.), has ever been discussed, if it is indeed a theory to follow. Heck if I know. Any FReepers with any info on this angle of the shooting?
The extra time only decreases the need for expert marksmanship. I have looked at the head wounds as represented online and do not find them conclusive in terms of projectile force and direction. There was immediate eyewitness testimony concerning a rifle barrel protruding from an upper window in the TSBD. I will grant that the proposition of additional shooters is not preposterous. At the same time, neither is the proposition of Oswald as a solo act. A jump from 6 seconds to 11 in the time it took to fire the shots only strengthens the latter thesis.
I heard it was Lyndon Banes.
Isn’t there some dispute about how many shots were fired? I believe that the Warren Commission said three and the House Select committee said the audio evidence said four. That’s what allows for the idea of a shooter on the grassy knoll.
That’s a famous picture from an AP photographer. Altgens, maybe? It’s the only one or two of its kind as far as I know, out of a lot of pics that day. It was included in the “Torch is Passed” book that everybody had in those days.
A Texas congressman travelling with the motorcade that day, Yarborough I think, mentioned that he could smell the odor of gunpowder from the time the shots were fired constantly and “all the way to Parkland”. This is very significant I think, because had shots only been fired from the 6th floor of a building (or just about anywhere else) there’s no way that could happen.
But a negligent firearm discharge from the motorcade itself, yeah I could see that happening. And it does explain a lot of other decisions that were made that day, and following days, and for years after.
The guy with the bow tie sitting on the right is Zapruder.
“BTW, when tested, the scope was misaligned, they had to resight the scope to be able to hit a test target!”
That doesn’t mean anything. Keep in mind please, that if that rifle were dropped at any point in time from when the shots were fired to that point in time when testing began, the scope would likely have been buggered. Hell, Oswald could have thrown it right after, who knows.
The sad truth in this situation Oswald was an enlisted US Marine, and they taught Marines how to shoot, and shoot well. Even a “Marksman”, or “Sharpshooter” or one step below “Expert”, is pretty good. Nobody makes it through Boot Camp in 1960 without being a competent marksman. It just goes with the territory.
I agree with you. The only conspiracy to kill JFK existed solely and entirely in the mind of Oswald, a troubled an angry loner.
There is also a report that the fatal round was from a SS agent’s gun as he lunging forward to protect JFK. Somewhere on FR. True false? Who knows?
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While the thread has probably run it’s course, I want to correct a couple of errors in my prior posts in case some others come back to it in the future.
The book I cited (and highly recommend) is titled “Mortal Error - The Shot That Killed JFK” by Bonar Menninger and published by St Marten’s Press. I incorrectly went from memory and said the title was Fatal Error. I found my copy late last night.
Also, the book is written about a man named Howard Donahue, who spent 25 years investigating the assassination. Donahue was very knowledgeable about firearms and ballistics. Menninger is the author not the expert.
Donahue was not pursuing a political agenda. The publisher note of nearly 20 pages explains that they did not want to be caught up in yet another wild conspiratorial paranoia. But in the end, while there is still the possibility Donahue may be in error, his analysis is compelling & has withstood many challenges. The federal givernment was (and I guess still is) effectively non-responsive to provide data, testimony, etc to show errors in Donahue’s analysis. In summary, there has been nothing put forth by anyone, including going head to head with the Warren Commission report that discredits Donahue’s conclusions.
I did not search to see if Menninger is still alive. But it is Donahue who is deceased.
The SS agent whose gun is said to have fired the gun is named Hickey. They reached out to him prior to publication, but he did not respond. Publisher did not hold his silence against him as he had no duty to respond. Hickey is deceased.
In conclusion, this book is very logical and compelling. It basically renders many of the other popular 2nd gunman theories as unsupported by the evidence at the scene. (The book does not deal with whether Oswald was part of bigger conspiracy to murder JFK). I’ll end here with this excerpt from the book, p248:
“For those who wonder what [Oswald] might have had in mind when he declared that he was just a “patsy”, Donahue’s theory allows an answer that does not entail the likes of a New Orleans conspiracy: Oswald, thinking to himself to be a lone gunman, nevertheless sees [JFK] killed by a shot he knows he did not fire. But he is the only one arrested. He does not know how they did it, but he is convinced, wrongly, that somehow he has been used.”
That seems a plausible take, given Donahue’s lengthy dedication to research. Is there positive evidence the projectiles differed in caliber? By that I mean is there a available for inspection today a projectile known to have pierced JFK that could not possibly have been fired through Oswald’s rifle? That would go a long way in confirming Donahue’s scenario.
Thanks for taking time to clarify. Fine additions to the thread.
I stand corrected. Thanks. He is indeed the guy on the right, not the left. 🙂
Not only was his research lengthy, it was very thorough. He even showed errors in other experts’ analysis.
Boiled down - the type of bullet Oswald shot was not capable of causing the massive head wound that blew his head apart. The bullet that went through the neck area was consistent with Oswald’s bullet. Donahue explains why a different type of bullet shot from behind did this, contrary to the popular accepted explanation that a shot from the front blew out the back of the skull.
Find a copy of the book, you’ll be glad you did.
I came to that same conclusion independently. Imagine that you are Oswald looking through the scope and seeing what happened. Now there’s a “WTF!?” moment if there ever was one.
Imagine that this sort of testimony comes out under any sort of questioning or coercion? It also neatly explains why he simply had to go bye-bye right away. No trial or waterboarding allowed, and a phony balogna “investigation” handled very carefully.
The scope could have been knocked of center when Oswald discarded the rifle behind some boxes on the 6th floor y the stairs.
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