Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

You Were Duped Into Saying Yes. Is That Still Consent?
NY Slimes ^ | March 5, 2021 | Roseanna Sommers

Posted on 03/05/2021 1:31:50 PM PST by Stravinsky

Imagine the following hypothetical situation: Frank and Ellen meet at a night course and end up getting drinks together after class several times. The drinks start to feel like dates, so Ellen asks Frank if he is married, making it clear that adultery is a deal-breaker for her. Frank is married, but he lies and says he is single. The two go to bed. Is Frank guilty of rape?

To most people, even those who consider Frank a dishonorable creep, the answer is clearly no. The law agrees: In most American jurisdictions, Frank is not liable for any tort or crime, let alone something as serious as sexual assault.

But why? This question has been a source of contention among legal experts for decades, ever since the law professor Susan Estrich argued that the law of rape should prohibit fraud to procure sex, just as the law of theft prohibits fraud to secure money. Ellen did not consent to have sex with a married man, the argument goes, so the sex she had with Frank was not consensual.

To many feminist legal scholars, the law’s failure to regard sexual fraud as a crime — when fraud elsewhere, such as fraud in business transactions, is taken to invalidate legal consent — shows that we are still beholden to an antiquated notion that rape is primarily a crime of force committed against a chaste, protesting victim, rather than primarily a violation of the right to control access to one’s body on one’s own terms.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Society
KEYWORDS: bidenvoters; consent; feminazis; feminists; mgtow; pua; redpill; slutwalk
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-98 next last
To: dangus
Really? Fraud never gets you sent to jail? Fascinating.

An excellent point, yes it does. Often. And you just illustrated the confusion that the author is laboring under, or wants you to labor under.

1. If you commit fraud and by doing so you harm someone, or steal their funds, you may go to jail. That's a criminal matter.

2. In addition, a contract is made in two parts: offer and acceptance, and if the acceptance (consent) is obtained by fraud it is ineffective and therefor the contract is null and void. That's a civil matter.

But note that the lack of effective consent in 2. does not in and of itself create a crime, it merely undoes the contract. If there wasn't some other element of a crime, the mere lack of effective consent would not get you sent to jail for the rest of your life.

It's easy for non-lawyers to get these confused, but it's completely inexcusable for a law professor. Either this professor does not understand the basic structure of American law (ie civil vs. criminal) or she wants to induce that confusion to strengthen her point.

41 posted on 03/05/2021 2:42:31 PM PST by edwinland
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Hardastarboard

He said it was very traumatic when he finally found out! So re-telling the story must have brought that all back.


42 posted on 03/05/2021 2:48:51 PM PST by shotgun
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Stravinsky

Ellen needs friends like mine. They need a name, age or workplace and not only I would have known he was married, but probably the last women he did this with, tax history, parking ticket history and what ever else they could dig up.

I don’t question methods, I just get recommendations from people I trust that keep me from these types of situations.


43 posted on 03/05/2021 2:50:33 PM PST by PrincessB
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Stravinsky

Women tell far more lies in a relationship, I don’t think they want this legal standard set.


44 posted on 03/05/2021 2:53:08 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not Averse to Going Bronson.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Stravinsky

According to femi-nazis… Having second thoughts the next day means she was RAPED the previous night.


45 posted on 03/05/2021 3:00:10 PM PST by Responsibility2nd (Trump is a deposed Pres. in exile. America is truly a banana republic. Our govt. has been overthrown)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: simpson96

How many beers would it take to hit that?


46 posted on 03/05/2021 3:01:19 PM PST by Responsibility2nd (Trump is a deposed Pres. in exile. America is truly a banana republic. Our govt. has been overthrown)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: algore

“But I know what I am and I’m glad I’m a man
And so is Lola”

People are still trying to figure out the meaning of the above.


47 posted on 03/05/2021 3:02:51 PM PST by BobL (TheDonald.win is now Patriots.win)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Stravinsky

She knows the man is not married to her.


48 posted on 03/05/2021 3:03:26 PM PST by ifinnegan ( Democrats kill babies and harvest their organs to sell)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DannyTN

The same principle is timeless and independent of geography. He shouldn’t be able to lament that it was long ago or far away. It is also irrelevant if it was so much better then than it is today.


49 posted on 03/05/2021 3:04:27 PM PST by posterchild
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Georgia Girl 2

Well said.


50 posted on 03/05/2021 3:04:32 PM PST by Bigg Red (Trump will be sworn in under a shower of confetti made from the tattered remains of the Rat Party.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: shotgun

“What if the man was 24 and the woman/girl told him he was 16? Then she continued to lie to him to get him to fly in to NYC twice a month for weekend hookups?”

Yes.

This writer’s argument would hold that statutory rape would not apply if the minor party told the adult he/she was 18 or more.

I doubt this writer would take that position.


51 posted on 03/05/2021 3:07:30 PM PST by ifinnegan ( Democrats kill babies and harvest their organs to sell)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Stravinsky

Not rape rape (thanks Whoopie!) but she’s allowed to boil his pet rabbit.


52 posted on 03/05/2021 3:10:06 PM PST by John Milner (Marching for Peace is like breathing for food. )
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Stravinsky

Next, we can decide how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.


53 posted on 03/05/2021 3:10:26 PM PST by HIDEK6 (F God bless Donald Trump. )
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Stravinsky

All of timeshare is based on this premise.


54 posted on 03/05/2021 3:12:47 PM PST by AppyPappy (How many fingers am I holding up, Winston? )
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Stravinsky
It's not rape because Ellen is easy and an idiot.
55 posted on 03/05/2021 3:15:09 PM PST by liberalh8ter (The only difference between flash mob 'urban yutes' and U.S. politicians is the hoodies.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: CharlesWayneCT

No, he just “identifies” as a single male.


56 posted on 03/05/2021 3:21:48 PM PST by PLMerite
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: stylin19a

“add this hook...Ellen has HIV and doesn’t tell Frank...”

Or Ellen tells Frank he looks like he’s been working out.

Or Ellen tells Frank she is going to divorce her husband.

Or Ellen tells Frank it doesn’t matter to her whether he drives a Mercedes or a Yugo.

.....


57 posted on 03/05/2021 3:23:20 PM PST by ModelBreaker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: EvilCapitalist

As hell


58 posted on 03/05/2021 3:24:14 PM PST by mrmeyer (You can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him. Robert Heinlein)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Stravinsky
Everyone needs a sexual consent app to cover these things. I'd assume this could be a basis for civil action, which should make the lawyers happy. Hope the app has a married or single check box. Gender too. And maybe a two intercourse option.

Denmark launches sexual consent app where lovers can give permission ‘for one intercourse, valid for 24 hours’ in the wake of new rape laws

59 posted on 03/05/2021 3:29:59 PM PST by SJackson (If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun...folks in Philly like a good brawl, BH Obama)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Stravinsky

It’s a fine line between, “Don’t, Stop” and “don’t stop.”


60 posted on 03/05/2021 3:31:52 PM PST by outofsalt (If history teaches us anything, it's that history rarely teaches anything.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-98 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson