OTHER???!!!

They do not see that the Mormons are not Biblical Christians bu against such we are warned as below

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. (2 Corinthians 11:3-4)

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. (2 Corinthians 11:13-15)

wow. my hymnals are in storage (temp) but I do miss them so. Thank you!

I can’t find anything there that shows how many Americans as a whole identify as Christians.

ABC 3 years ago: Eighty-three percent of Americans identify themselves as Christians. Most of the rest, 13 percent, have no religion. That leaves just 4 percent as adherents of all non-Christian religions combined — Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and a smattering of individual mentions.

That's quite different from the world at large: Fifty-two percent of the world's population is non-Christian, compared to 4 percent in the United States; and one-third is Christian, compared to 83 percent in the United States. (These are rough comparisons, because the world figures, reported by the Encyclopedia Britannica, are for the full population, while the U.S. figures are among adults only.)

The largest group within the ranks of American Protestants is unaffiliated: Nineteen percent of Americans say they're Protestants, but don't cite a specific denomination. Another 15 percent of Americans identify themselves as Baptists or Southern Baptists,

Thirty-seven percent of all Christians describe themselves as born-again or evangelical; that includes nearly half of all Protestants (47 percent), as well as a small share (14 percent) of Catholics. http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90356&page=1

According to a 2014 study by the Pew Research Center, 70.6% of the adult population identified themselves as Christians, with 46.5% professing attendance at a variety of churches that could be considered Protestant, and 20.8% professing Catholic beliefs. The same study says that other religions (including Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Islam) collectively make up about 6% of the population.

According to the Association of Statisticians of American Religious Bodies newsletter published March 2017, based on data from 2010, Christians were the largest religious population in all 3,143 counties in the country.[17] Roughly 46.5% of Americans are Protestants, 20.8% are Catholics, 1.6% are Mormons (the name commonly used to refer to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints), and 1.7% have affiliations with various other Christian denominations.[2]

A 2015 study estimates some 450,000 Christian believers from a Muslim background in the country, most of them belonging to some form of Protestantism.[22] In 2010 there were approximately 180,000 Arab Americans and about 130,000 Iranian Americans who converted from Islam to Christianity. Dudley Woodbury, a Fulbright scholar of Islam, estimates that 20,000 Muslims convert to Christianity annually in the United States.[23] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States

I'm curious if the pollng defines "evangelical" to those polled. Liberals have done a pretty extensive job of redefining the term since 2007.

See http://www.peacebyjesus.com/RC-Stats_vs._Evang.html#Evangelical

...Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Joseph Smith History

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/js-h/1.19?lang=eng

Joseph Smith tells of his ancestry, family members, and their early abodes—An unusual excitement about religion prevails in western New York—He determines to seek wisdom as directed by James—The Father and the Son appear, and Joseph is called to his prophetic ministry. (Verses 1–20.)

1 Owing to the many reports which have been put in circulation by evil-disposed and designing persons, in relation to the rise and progress of ^aThe Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, all of which have been designed by the authors thereof to militate against its character as a Church and its progress in the world—I have been induced to write this history, to disabuse the public mind, and put all inquirers after truth in possession of the ^bfacts, as they have transpired, in relation both to myself and the Church, so far as I have such facts in my possession.

2 In this history I shall present the various events in relation to this Church, in truth and righteousness, as they have transpired, or as they at present exist, being now [1838] the ^aeighth ^byear since the organization of the said Church.

3 ^aI was born in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and five, on the twenty-third day of December, in the town of Sharon, Windsor county, State of Vermont. … My father, ^bJoseph Smith, Sen., left the State of Vermont, and moved to Palmyra, Ontario (now Wayne) county, in the State of New York, when I was in my tenth year, or thereabouts. In about four years after my father’s arrival in Palmyra, he moved with his family into Manchester in the same county of Ontario—

4 His family consisting of eleven souls, namely, my father, Joseph Smith; my ^amother, Lucy Smith (whose name, previous to her marriage, was Mack, daughter of Solomon Mack); my brothers, ^bAlvin (who died November 19th, 1823, in the 26th year of his age), ^cHyrum, myself, ^dSamuel Harrison, William, Don Carlos; and my sisters, Sophronia, Catherine, and Lucy.

5 Some time in the second year after our removal to Manchester, there was in the place where we lived an unusual excitement on the subject of religion. It commenced with the Methodists, but soon became general among all the sects in that region of country. Indeed, the whole district of country seemed affected by it, and great multitudes united themselves to the different religious parties, which created no small stir and division amongst the people, some crying, ^a“Lo, here!” and others, “Lo, there!” Some were contending for the Methodist faith, some for the Presbyterian, and some for the Baptist.

6 For, notwithstanding the great ^alove which the converts to these different faiths expressed at the time of their conversion, and the great zeal manifested by the respective clergy, who were active in getting up and promoting this extraordinary scene of religious feeling, in order to have everybody converted, as they were pleased to call it, let them join what sect they pleased; yet when the converts began to file off, some to one party and some to another, it was seen that the seemingly good feelings of both the priests and the converts were more ^bpretended than real; for a scene of great confusion and bad feeling ensued—priest contending against priest, and convert against convert; so that all their good feelings one for another, if they ever had any, were entirely lost in a strife of words and a contest about opinions.

7 I was at this time in my fifteenth year. My father’s family was proselyted to the Presbyterian faith, and four of them joined that church, namely, my mother, Lucy; my brothers Hyrum and Samuel Harrison; and my sister Sophronia.

8 During this time of great excitement my mind was called up to serious reflection and great uneasiness; but though my feelings were deep and often poignant, still I kept myself aloof from all these parties, though I attended their several meetings as often as occasion would permit. In process of time my mind became somewhat partial to the Methodist sect, and I felt some desire to be united with them; but so great were the confusion and ^astrife among the different denominations, that it was impossible for a person young as I was, and so unacquainted with men and things, to come to any certain conclusion who was ^bright and who was wrong.

9 My mind at times was greatly excited, the cry and tumult were so great and incessant. The Presbyterians were most decided against the Baptists and Methodists, and used all the powers of both reason and sophistry to prove their errors, or, at least, to make the people think they were in error. On the other hand, the Baptists and Methodists in their turn were equally zealous in endeavoring to establish their own tenets and disprove all others.

10 In the midst of this war of words and tumult of opinions, I often said to myself: What is to be done? Who of all these parties are right; or, are they all wrong together? If any one of them be ^aright, which is it, and how shall I know it?

11 While I was laboring under the extreme difficulties caused by the contests of these parties of religionists, I was one day reading the ^aEpistle of James, first chapter and fifth verse, which reads: If any of you lack ^bwisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

12 Never did any passage of ^ascripture come with more power to the heart of man than this did at this time to mine. It seemed to enter with great force into every feeling of my heart. I reflected on it again and again, knowing that if any person needed ^bwisdom from God, I did; for how to act I did not know, and unless I could get more wisdom than I then had, I would never know; for the teachers of religion of the different sects ^cunderstood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible.

13 At length I came to the conclusion that I must either remain in ^adarkness and confusion, or else I must do as James directs, that is, ask of God. I at length came to the determination to “ask of God,” concluding that if he gave wisdom to them that lacked wisdom, and would ^bgive liberally, and not upbraid, I might venture.

14 So, in accordance with this, my determination to ask of God, I retired to the ^awoods to make the attempt. It was on the morning of a ^bbeautiful, clear day, early in the spring of eighteen hundred and twenty. It was the first time in my life that I had made such an attempt, for amidst all my anxieties I had never as yet made the attempt to ^cpray ^dvocally.

15 After I had retired to the place where I had previously designed to go, having looked around me, and finding myself alone, I kneeled down and began to offer up the desires of my heart to God. I had scarcely done so, when immediately I was ^aseized upon by some power which entirely overcame me, and had such an astonishing influence over me as to bind my tongue so that I could not speak. Thick ^bdarkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction.

16 But, exerting all my powers to ^acall upon God to deliver me out of the power of this enemy which had seized upon me, and at the very moment when I was ready to sink into ^bdespair and abandon myself to destruction—not to an imaginary ruin, but to the power of some actual being from the unseen world, who had such marvelous power as I had never before felt in any being—just at this moment of great alarm, I saw a pillar of ^clight exactly over my head, above the brightness of the ^dsun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me.

17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself ^adelivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I ^bsaw two ^cPersonages, whose brightness and ^dglory defy all description, ^estanding above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My ^fBeloved ^gSon. Hear Him!

18 My object in going to ^ainquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.

19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all ^awrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those ^bprofessors were all ^ccorrupt; that: “they ^ddraw near to me with their lips, but their ^ehearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the ^fcommandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the ^gpower thereof.”

20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself ^alying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, ^bmother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.” It seems as though the ^cadversary was aware, at a very early period of my life, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of his kingdom; else why should the powers of darkness combine against me? Why the ^dopposition and persecution that arose against me, almost in my infancy?

How can Mormon’s actually MISS this???

Revelation 21:1-5

1 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”^[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. ²I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. ³And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. ⁴‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’^[b] or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

⁵He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

Compare to:

HEAVEN-The Mormon church teaches there are three levels of heaven (three "degrees of glory"):

Celestial - for Mormons who have kept ALL of the laws and ordinances of their church. (Where the Father lives. Only about 15% of Mormons have a VALID TR card.)

Terrestrial - for religious people who aren't Mormons and for Mormons who have not met the requirements of the Church. (Where approximately 85% 0f Mormons will end up)

Telestial - where unbelievers go

The Doctrine and Covenants

Section 76

92 And thus we saw the glory of the celestial, which excels in all things—where God, even the Father, reigns upon his throne forever and ever;
93 Before whose throne all things bow in humble reverence, and give him glory forever and ever.
94 They who dwell in his presence are the church of the Firstborn; and they see as they are seen, and know as they are known, having received of his fulness and of his grace;
95 And he makes them equal in power, and in might, and in dominion.

Those who inherit terrestrial glory will “receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father. https://www.lds.org/topics/kingdoms-of-glory?lang=eng (click view more)

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. (2 Corinthians 11:3-4)

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. (2 Corinthians 11:13-15)
A couple things;
1. You're assuming that what you believe is correct and your gospel is the same as what the original apostles preached. In other words, your interpretation is the right interpretation. Given that you have no prophets and God hasn't spoken to any of you in 2000 years... I was say that's suspect.

2. The light that is spoken of in 2 Cor means enlightenment or understanding. It is not physical light. It goes with "light and knowledge". What Paul means is, an angel trying to give you knowledge that is different than what we told you, then it's the devil trying to deceive you.

3. The light spoken of by Joseph Smith in the history of the Church, "...—just at this moment of great alarm, I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me.", is referring to physical light. It was brighter than the sun....

Satan cannot mimic the glory of God because he has no glory. He can try to appear as an angel because he can sometimes make himself visible. Therefore when someone sees him do this, they assume because it's supernatural that he's from God.

What Joseph Smith saw was the glory of God which produces physical light. He's very very bright.

What Joseph Smith saw was the glory of God which produces physical light. He's very very bright.

You have NO idea what JS 'saw'.

Or even WHEN he 'saw' it.

Version Number When Published Brief Description	Age/Year	Evil Power	Pillar of Light or Fire	Number of Personages	Father	Son	Question: Join What Sect	Remarks
Official Version, Mormon scripture, Pearl of Great Price p. 47, 48, 1974 Ed.	Age 14 1820	Yes	Yes Light	2	Yes	Yes	Join None	Lucy, Hyrum, Samuel, Sopronia Join Presbyterian Church 1820
Paper by Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons March, April 1842	Same as item 1 above
Letter from Joseph Smith to John Wentworth, editor Chicago Democrat 1841 account Published March 1,1842	None given	No	No	2	?	?	No question, told all incorrect	Joseph Smith's First Vision by Milton V. Backman Jr. Bookcraft, Appendix D. Ensign, Jan.1985, p. 16
				Both looked the Same They spoke
Dictated by Joseph Smith, in hand of James Mulholland, 1838	Same as item 1 above, first known account of the official version.							Ensign, Jan. 1985 p. 14
Joseph Smith's diary of 1835, Recorded by Warren Cowdery Nov. 9, 1835, conversation of Joseph Smith with Joshua	Joseph, about 14	No Tongue seemed swollen; heard someone; at first couldn't pray	Yes Fire	One, and then another like unto the first	?	?	No question, told sins are forgiven, Jesus Christ is the Son of God	Joseph Smith's First Vision by Milton V. Backman Jr. Bookcraft, Appendix B
				Second spoke.
				Saw many angels
Messenger & Advocate by Oliver Cowdery supervised by Joseph Smith Feb. 1835 p. 77-79; Also see Dec. 1834 p. 43	Joseph 17 1823	No	Yes	1	No	No	No question told sin are forgiven	Note on pg. 78 that the revival was in 1823 (NOT 1820) so this must be the First Vision.
				Messenger from God
Dictated by Joseph Smith to F. G. Williams Summer to Nov. 1832	Joseph 14 or 16	No	Yes	1	No	Yes	No question, told "None doeth good", sins forgiven	Joseph Smith's First Vision by Milton V. Backman Jr. Bookcraft, Appendix A
				Saw Lord (Jesus) he "spoke"
Written by Joseph Smith, 1832 diary	Joseph 15	No	Yes	1	No	Yes	No question, told sins forgiven all do no good	Ensign, Dec. 1984 pgs. 24-26 Jan. 1985 pg. 11
				Saw the Lord Jesus Christ (said He was crucified)
Early Church leaders B. Young, G. A. Smith, J. Taylor	Joseph 15	No	No	1	No	No	Join None	Journal of Discourses, 2:171; 18:239; 13:77,78; 20:167; 12:333,334
				Saw an angel, and asked the angel

Here is the earliest account we have:

[Written between 20 July and 27 November 1832: Jessee, Personal Writings: 5-7: Handwriting of Frederick G. Williams, and Joseph Smith]

“A History of the life of Joseph Smith Jr. an account of his marvilous experience and of all the mighty acts which he doeth in the name of Jesus Christ the son of the living God of whom he beareth record and also an account of the rise of the church of Christ in the eve of time according as the Lord brough forth and established by his hand he receiving the testamony from on high secondly the ministering of Angels thirdly the reception of the holy Priesthood by the ministring of Angels to adminster the letter of the Gospel– and the ordinencs, forthly a confirmation and reception of the high Priesthood after the holy order of the son of the living God power and ordinence from on high to preach the Gospel in the administration and demonstration of the spirit the Kees of the Kingdom of God confered upon him and the continuation of the blessings of God to him &c–– The Lord does reveal himself to me. ….

At about the age of twelve years my mind become seriously imprest with regard to the all important concerns for the wellfare of my immortal Soul which led me to searching the scriptures believing as I was taught, that they contained the word of God thus applying myself to them and my intimate acquaintance with those of different denominations led me to marvel excedingly for I discovered that (they did not) of adorn their profession by a holy walk and Godly conversation agreeable to what I found contained in that sacred depository this was a grief to my Soul thus from the age of twelve years to fifteen I pondered many things in my heart concerning the sittuation of the world of mankind the contentions and divisions the wickedness and abominations and the darkness which pervaded the minds of mankind my mind become excedingly distressed for I become convicted of my sins and by searching the scriptures I found that mankind did not come unto the Lord but that they had apostatised from the true and living faith and there was no society or denomination that built upon the gospel of Jesus Christ as recorded in the new testament and I felt to mourn for my own sins and for the sins of the world for I learned in the scriptures that God was the same yesterday today and forever that he was no respecter to persons for he was God ….

Therefore I cried unto the Lord for mercy for there was none else to whom I could go and to obtain mercy and the Lord heard my cry in the wilderness and while in the attitude of calling upon the Lord in the 16th year of my age a piller of light above the brightness of the sun at noon day came down from above and rested upon me and I was filled with the Spirit of God and the Lord opened the heavens upon me and I saw the Lord and he spake unto me saying Joseph my son Thy Sins are forgiven thee, go thy way walk in my Statutes and keep my commandments behold I am the Lord of glory I was crucifyed for the world that all those who believe on my name may have Eternal life the world lieth in sin and at this time and none doeth good no not one they have turned aside from the Gospel and keep not commandments they draw near to me with their lips while their hearts are far from me and mine anger is kindling against the inhabitants of the earth to visit them according to their ungodliness and to bring to pass that which been spoken by the mouth of the prophets and Apostles behold and lo I come quickly as it is written of me in the cloud in the glory of my Father and my soul was filled with love and for many days I could rejoice with great Joy and the Lord was with me but could find none that would believe the hevnly vision nevertheless I pondered these things in my heart but after many days I fell into transgression and sinned in many things which brought wound upon my soul and there were many things which transpired that cannot be writen and my Fathers family have suffered many persicutions and afflictions and it came to pass when I was seventeen years of age I called again upon the Lord and he shewed unto me a heavenly vision for behold an angel of the Lord came and stood before me and it was by night and he called me by name and he said the Lord had forgiven me my sins and he revealed unto me that in the Town of Manchester Ontario County N.Y., there was plates of gold upon which there was engravings which was engraven by Maroni & his fathers….

He appeared unto me three times in one night and once on the next day”

...God hasn't spoken to any of you in 2000 years...

Yeah. That worked out well for JS; didn't it!

The Doctrine and Covenants

Section 132

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded 12 July 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, and also the plurality of wives (see History of the Church, 5:501–7). Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.

1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21–25, The strait and narrow way leads to eternal lives; 26–27, The law is given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation are made to prophets and Saints in all ages; 40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many ^awives and ^bconcubines—

2 Behold, and lo, I am the Lord thy God, and will answer thee as touching this matter.

3 Therefore, ^aprepare thy heart to receive and ^bobey the instructions which I am about to give unto you; for all those who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same.

4 For behold, I reveal unto you a new and an everlasting ^acovenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye ^bdamned; for no one can ^creject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory.

5 For all who will have a ^ablessing at my hands shall abide the ^blaw which was appointed for that blessing, and the conditions thereof, as were instituted from before the foundation of the world.

6And as pertaining to the new and ^aeverlasting covenant, it was instituted for the fulness of my ^bglory; and he that receiveth a fulness thereof must and shall abide the law, or he shall be damned, saith the Lord God.

It looks like 'the lord' spoke to JS in verse one and establiched an everlasting covenant that lasted what? 47 years or so?

...God hasn't spoken to any of you in 2000 years...

GOD speaks AGAIN!!!

THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

SECTION 132

55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said;

and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ^ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters,

houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of ^beternal lives in the eternal worlds.

Oooops!!

A couple things; 1. You're assuming that what you believe is correct and your gospel is the same as what the original apostles preached.

That is absurd. We have abundant manuscript evidences attesting to the preservation of NT texts, with only minor variations which do not effect doctrine, while you and the Muslims have zero MSS evidence to support the substantial doctrinal changes being made that would be required to explain the substantial conflict btwn your religion and Scripture.

In other words, your interpretation is the right interpretation.

That is illogical. Preservation of texts is not the same thing as interpretation of it, though in Mormonic minds it is.

Given that you have no prophets and God hasn't spoken to any of you in 2000 years... I was say that's suspect.

Which is also absurd. Even the veracity of apostlic preaching was subject to testing by the established written word of God, not vice versa, and how much more must the the claims of those claiming to be prophets today (or in the 1800s) be examined in the light of Scripture. Which exposes your demonic Joseph Smith to be lair from Hell, which is where he is now.

The light that is spoken of in 2 Cor means enlightenment or understanding. It is not physical light.

It need not be limited to enlightenment, but I did not say that the Mormon Moroni was a demonic angel of light due to his appearance, and that he was a demonic angel of light is determined by what he said and led to.

What Paul means is, an angel trying to give you knowledge that is different than what we told you, then it's the devil trying to deceive you.

Indeed, and thus Mormonism is of the devil .

I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me.", is referring to physical light. It was brighter than the sun.

So a self-deluded lying carnal man familiar with occultic seer stones tells of a vision, as did Muhammad and Emanuel Swedenborg, etc. all of which are also with Smith in Hell. May God grant you repentance unto the acknowledging of the Truth.

Amen and amen We should sing that great anthem more than just on Reformation Sunday .

A Mighty Fortress by Steve Green
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRJHKzU_t1M

...while you and the Muslims have zero MSS evidence to support the substantial doctrinal changes being made that would be required to explain the substantial conflict btwn your religion and Scripture.

"I Will Be a Second Mohammed"

In the heat of the Missouri 'Mormon War' of 1838, Joseph Smith made the following claim,

"I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was "the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword". So shall it eventually be with us: "Joseph Smith or the Sword!" [1]

It is most interesting that a self-proclaimed Christian prophet would liken himself to Mohammed, the founder of Islam. His own comparison invites us to take a closer look as well. And when we do, we find some striking and troubling parallels. Consider the following.

Mohammed and Joseph Smith both had humble beginnings. Neither had formal religious connections or upbringing, and both were relatively uneducated. Both founded new religions by creating their own scriptures. In fact, followers of both prophets claim these scriptures are miracles since their authors were the most simple and uneducated of men.[2]
Both prophets claim of having angel visitations, and of receiving divine revelation to restore pure religion to the earth again. Mohammed was told that both Jews and Christians had long since corrupted their scriptures and religion. In like manner, Joseph Smith was told that all of Christianity had become corrupt, and that consequently the Bible itself was no longer reliable. In both cases, this corruption required a complete restoration of both scripture and religion. Nothing which preceded either prophet could be relied upon any longer. Both prophets claim they were used of God to restore eternal truths which once existed on earth, but had been lost due to human corruption.
Both prophets created new scripture which borrowed heavily from the Bible, but with a substantially new spin. In his Koran, Mohammed appropriates a number of Biblical themes and characters, but he changes the complete sense of many passages, claiming to 'correct' the Bible. In so doing he changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place. In like manner, Joseph Smith created the Book of Mormon, much of which is plagiarized directly from the King James Bible. Interestingly, the Book of Mormon claims that this same Bible has been substantially corrupted and is therefore unreliable. In addition, Joseph Smith went so far as to actually create his own version of the Bible itself, the 'Inspired Version' in which he both adds and deletes significant portions of text, claiming he is 'correcting' it. In so doing he also changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place.
As a part of their new scriptural 'spin', both prophets saw themselves as prophesied in scripture, and both saw themselves as a continuation of a long line of Biblical prophets. Mohammed saw himself as a continuation of the ministry of Moses and Jesus. Joseph Smith saw himself as a successor to Enoch, Melchizedek, Joseph and Moses. Joseph Smith actually wrote himself into his own version of the Bible by name.
Both prophets held up their own scripture as superior to the Bible. Mohammed claimed that the Koran was a perfect copy of the original which was in heaven. The Koran is therefore held to be absolutely perfect, far superior to the Bible and superceding it. In like manner, Joseph Smith also made the following claim. "I told the Brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding its precepts, than by any other book." [3]
Despite their claim that the Bible was corrupt, both prophets admonished their followers to adhere to its teachings. An obvious contradiction, this led to selective acceptance of some portions and wholesale rejection of others. As a result, the Bible is accepted by both groups of followers only to the extent that it agrees with their prophet's own superior revelation.
Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith taught that true salvation was to be found only in their respective religions. Those who would not accept their message were considered 'infidels', pagans or Gentiles. In so doing, both prophets became the enemy of genuine Christianity, and have led many people away from the Christ of the Bible.
Both prophets encountered fierce opposition to their new religions and had to flee from town to town because of threats on their lives. Both retaliated to this opposition by forming their own militias. Both ultimately set up their own towns as model societies.
Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith left unclear instructions about their successors. The majority of Mohammed's followers, Sunni Muslims, believe they were to elect their new leader, whereas the minority, Shiite Muslims, look to Ali ibn Abi lib, whom they consider Divinely appointed, as the rightful successor to Muhammad, and the first imam. (Ali was the cousin and son-in-law of the Islamic prophet Muhammad). Similarly, the majority of Joseph Smith's followers, Mormons, believed their next prophet should have been the existing leader of their quorum of twelve apostles, whereas the minority, RLDS, believed Joseph Smith's own son should have been their next prophet. Differences on this issue, and many others, have created substantial tension between these rival groups of each prophet.
Mohammed taught that Jesus was just another of a long line of human prophets, of which he was the last. He taught that he was superior to Christ and superceded Him. In comparison, Joseph Smith also made the following claim.

"I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet." [4] In light of these parallels, perhaps Joseph Smith's claim to be a second Mohammed unwittingly became his most genuine prophecy of all.

[1] Joseph Smith made this statement at the conclusion of a speech in the public square at Far West, Missouri on October 14, 1838. This particular quote is documented in Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, second edition, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1971), p. 230-231. Fawn Brodie's footnote regarding this speech contains valuable information, and follows. â€œExcept where noted, all the details of this chapter [16] are taken from the History of the [Mormon] Church. This speech, however, was not recorded there, and the report given here is based upon the accounts of seven men. See the affidavits of T.B. Marsh, Orson Hyde, George M. Hinkle, John Corrill, W.W. Phelps, Samson Avard, and Reed Peck in Correspondence, Orders, etc., pp. 57-59, 97-129. The Marsh and Hyde account, which was made on October 24, is particularly important. Part of it was reproduced in History of the [Mormon] Church, Vol. III, p. 167. See also the Peck manuscript, p. 80. Joseph himself barely mentioned the speech in his history; see Vol. III, p. 162.

[2] John Ankerberg & John Weldon, The Facts on Islam, (Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 1998), pp.8-9. Eric Johnson, Joseph Smith & Muhammed, (El Cajon, CA: Mormonism Research Ministry, 1998), pp. 6-7.

[3] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.4, pp.461.

[4] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.6, pp.408-409.

...while you and the Muslims have zero MSS evidence to support the substantial doctrinal changes being made that would be required to explain the substantial conflict btwn your religion and Scripture.

Text	Original 1830 Edition, Book of Mormon	Editions 1837, 1888, 1920, 1964, 1978
Title page	Joseph Smith, Jr. The author and proprietor of this work	Joseph Smith, Jr. the translator of this work
Title page	now if there be fault, it be the mistake of men...	now if there are faults, they are the mistakes of men...
1 Ne 13:40	the lamb of God is the Eternal Father	the lamb of God is the son of the Eternal Father
1Nephi 11:21	the Eternal Father	son of the Eternal Father
1 Nephi 11:32	the Everlasting God	son of the Everlasting God
1 Nephi 20:1	words added	or out of the waters of Baptism
2 Nephi 12:9	the mean man boweth down	the mean man boweth not down
Alma 29:4	Yea, decreeth unto them decrees which are unalterable	words deleted
Alma 37:21,24	directors	Interpreters
Alma 30:16	it is the effects of a phrensied mind	it is the effect of a frenzied mind
Throughout B of M	now there was seven churches	now there were seven churches
Throughout B of M	there were no blood to shed	there was no blood to shed
Throughout B of M	there is two churches	there are two churches
Throughout B of M	and also much horses	and also many horses
Throughout B of M	these things had not ought to be	these things ought not to be
Throughout B of M	as I was a journeying	as I was journeying ("a" removed)
Throughout B of M	They did prepare for to meet them	They did prepare to meet them ("for" removed)
Throughout B of M	some have arrested the scriptures	some have wrested the scriptures
Throughout B of M	when they had arriven	when they had arrived
Throughout B of M	having no respects to persons	having no respect to persons ("s" removed)
Throughout B of M	they had fell into great errors	they had fallen into great errors
Throughout B of M	which was wrote upon the plates	which was written upon the plates
Throughout B of M	they were exceeding fraid	they were exceedingly afraid
Throughout B of M	they had began to possess the land	they had begun to possess the land
Throughout B of M	this they done that they might provide food	this they did that they might provide food
Alma 23:1	nor neither of their brethren	nor either of their brethren
Mosiah 21:28; Ether 4:1	king Benjamin	Mosiah (Benjamin was dead at this time)
1 Nephi 12:18	Jesus Christ	Messiah (Jesus had not yet been revealed to the Nephites)
1 Nephi 20:1	come forth out of the waters of Judah	or out of the waters of baptism (these words added after "Judah"
2 Nephi 16:2	seraphims	seraphim (verse copied from older copy of KJV which made a gramatical error)

This chart courtesy of Jerald and Sandra Tanner.

Yeah; there is more...

Book of Mormon change: Instead of being the "principal ancestors" of American Indians, Lamanites are now......�among the ancestors of the American Indians.�

[The original phrase and the changes are noted in Red and bold for emphasis]

In the Introduction to the Book of Mormon the second paragraph reads:

�The book was written by many ancient prophets by the spirit of prophecy and revelation. Their words, written on gold plates, were quoted and abridged by a prophet-historian named Mormon. The record gives an account of the two great civilizations. One came from Jerusalem in 600 B.C., and afterward separated into two nations, known as the Nephites and the Lamanites. The other came much earlier when the Lord confounded the tongues at the Tower of Babel. This group is known as the Jaredites.

After thousands of years, all were destroyed except the Lamanites, and they are the principal ancestors of the American Indians.�

This was included in the first printing runs of the Doubleday Edition.

In the latest printing of the Doubleday Edition of the Book of Mormon, the last sentence was changed to read:

�...After thousands of years, all were destroyed except the Lamanites, and they are among the ancestors of the American Indians.�

The interesting thing is this change is not published anywhere. Additionally, the new Doubleday Edition still lists itself as a first edition. I am no publisher, but my understanding was when you made changes, you listed it as a second, third, etc. edition. The second edition also indicates that it is still first printing, which would be impossible since the change was made.

What I said here:
[sp]A couple things; 1. You're assuming that what you believe is correct and your gospel is the same as what the original apostles preached.

Has nothing to do with your response here:
[daniel1212]That is absurd. We have abundant manuscript evidences attesting to the preservation of NT texts, with only minor variations which do not effect doctrine, while you and the Muslims have zero MSS evidence to support the substantial doctrinal changes being made that would be required to explain the substantial conflict btwn your religion and Scripture.

Again you're assuming you're interpreting scripture correctly and that your doctrine is correct. But you have no prophet to a approve your conclusions or correct your mistakes. You're in the same boat that the Pharisees were in. They had scripture too but rejected the prophets and relied solely on tradition and their own understanding ...and got it completely wrong.

That is illogical. Preservation of texts is not the same thing as interpretation of it, though in Mormonic minds it is.

Childish insults. And an all around ignorant statement. Preservation of text is a red herring you just introduced into this discussion. We are discussing you're inability to interpret scripture correctly. Which is true, because without a prophet there's no way for you to understand the depth and scope of the doctrine being discussed in the New Testament. This is why there are thousands of denominations and the gap of understanding on simple things such as baptism.

Which is also absurd. Even the veracity of apostlic[sic] preaching was subject to testing by the established written word of God, not vice versa, and how much more must the the claims of those claiming to be prophets today (or in the 1800s) be examined in the light of Scripture. Which exposes your demonic Joseph Smith to be lair from Hell, which is where he is now.

And you have it all totally backwards. Why do you think the Jews stoned the prophets? Why did they crucify Jesus? Because they would never yield to the fact they were wrong.

The final arbiter of truth is never the scriptures. James explains,
James 1:
5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

We are to go to God first in prayer and He may use the scriptures to teach us what the truth is...

Indeed, and thus Mormonism is of the devil .

Which is exactly what the Jews said about Jesus...

The vast majority of people will not be saved even those that claim to believe in Jesus. Jesus Himself made that very clear. The elect will come out of the world and find the right path that leads to salvation. The rest will understand their mistakes at the final judgement and be cast out. I don't need to call you names or cast you down to hell...I trust the Lord will award each of us according to our works.

They their fruits ye shall know them was the promise. What was Joseph Smith's fruits?

http://www.challengemin.org/WITNESS.PDF

What was Joseph Smith's fruits?

Well...

JESUS: Hey Smith! Remember that boast you made about doing more than even I had done to hold the 'church' together?

JOSEPH SMITH: Where am I?

JESUS: Don't you remember? A few seconds ago you were in that jail.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah; but where am I NOW?

JESUS: Don't you remember? Does bang - bang ring a bell?

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah - that crummy gun I had was about USELESS!

JESUS: I hope you left instructions on how to hold your church together.

JOSEPH SMITH: Dang! I knew there was SOMETHING I was forgetting!

JESUS: Looks like there's a power struggle going on down there.

JOSEPH SMITH: Yeah; there was always SOMEone who wanted the power that I held - especially over the LADIES - wink wink.

JESUS: No need to worry about that now; remember what my friend Matthew wrote down?

JOSEPH SMITH: This? “At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven” (Matthew 22:30)

JESUS: That's it.

JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.

JESUS: Nah - it was right.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh well; it was fun while it lasted. My buds will still get it on with the girls.

JESUS: Uh; I'm sorry; in just a few more years; your followers will cavein to the United States government and abandon the 'Eternal Covenant' that you came up with.

JOSEPH SMITH: ME!? YOU are the one that told me to do that!

JESUS: Sorry; but you must have mistranslated what I told you. What part of Do NOT commit ADULTERY did you not understand?

JOSEPH SMITH: mumble....

JESUS: What did you say?

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, nothing.

JESUS: Well; it was interesting talking to you; but now I must get back to perparing a place for those who believe in Me.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, yeah; the Celestial Kingdom.

JESUS: No...

JOSEPH SMITH: The Telestial one?

JESUS: Nope.

JOSEPH SMITH: SUREly not the TERRESTRIAL one!!

JESUS: Nope. Didn't you read that the mind of man had NOT conceived of it? Paul wrote it down in 1 Corinthians 2:9.

JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.

JESUS: No; it wasn't.

JOSEPH SMITH: You SURE?

JESUS: Yes. Now I must be going: what did you say your name was again?

JOSEPH SMITH: Joseph Smith.

JESUS: Hmmmm. According to my Heavenly FAITHbook, you didn't sign in as one of my friends - sorry, I never knew you.

JOSEPH SMITH: But....