What I said here:
[sp]A couple things; 1. You're assuming that what you believe is correct and your gospel is the same as what the original apostles preached.

Has nothing to do with your response here:
[daniel1212]That is absurd. We have abundant manuscript evidences attesting to the preservation of NT texts, with only minor variations which do not effect doctrine, while you and the Muslims have zero MSS evidence to support the substantial doctrinal changes being made that would be required to explain the substantial conflict btwn your religion and Scripture.

Again you're assuming you're interpreting scripture correctly and that your doctrine is correct. But you have no prophet to a approve your conclusions or correct your mistakes. You're in the same boat that the Pharisees were in. They had scripture too but rejected the prophets and relied solely on tradition and their own understanding ...and got it completely wrong.

That is illogical. Preservation of texts is not the same thing as interpretation of it, though in Mormonic minds it is.

Childish insults. And an all around ignorant statement. Preservation of text is a red herring you just introduced into this discussion. We are discussing you're inability to interpret scripture correctly. Which is true, because without a prophet there's no way for you to understand the depth and scope of the doctrine being discussed in the New Testament. This is why there are thousands of denominations and the gap of understanding on simple things such as baptism.

Which is also absurd. Even the veracity of apostlic[sic] preaching was subject to testing by the established written word of God, not vice versa, and how much more must the the claims of those claiming to be prophets today (or in the 1800s) be examined in the light of Scripture. Which exposes your demonic Joseph Smith to be lair from Hell, which is where he is now.

And you have it all totally backwards. Why do you think the Jews stoned the prophets? Why did they crucify Jesus? Because they would never yield to the fact they were wrong.

The final arbiter of truth is never the scriptures. James explains,
James 1:
5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

We are to go to God first in prayer and He may use the scriptures to teach us what the truth is...

Indeed, and thus Mormonism is of the devil .

Which is exactly what the Jews said about Jesus...

The vast majority of people will not be saved even those that claim to believe in Jesus. Jesus Himself made that very clear. The elect will come out of the world and find the right path that leads to salvation. The rest will understand their mistakes at the final judgement and be cast out. I don't need to call you names or cast you down to hell...I trust the Lord will award each of us according to our works.

They their fruits ye shall know them was the promise. What was Joseph Smith's fruits?

What was Joseph Smith's fruits?

Well...

JESUS: Hey Smith! Remember that boast you made about doing more than even I had done to hold the 'church' together?

JOSEPH SMITH: Where am I?

JESUS: Don't you remember? A few seconds ago you were in that jail.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah; but where am I NOW?

JESUS: Don't you remember? Does bang - bang ring a bell?

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah - that crummy gun I had was about USELESS!

JESUS: I hope you left instructions on how to hold your church together.

JOSEPH SMITH: Dang! I knew there was SOMETHING I was forgetting!

JESUS: Looks like there's a power struggle going on down there.

JOSEPH SMITH: Yeah; there was always SOMEone who wanted the power that I held - especially over the LADIES - wink wink.

JESUS: No need to worry about that now; remember what my friend Matthew wrote down?

JOSEPH SMITH: This? “At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven” (Matthew 22:30)

JESUS: That's it.

JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.

JESUS: Nah - it was right.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh well; it was fun while it lasted. My buds will still get it on with the girls.

JESUS: Uh; I'm sorry; in just a few more years; your followers will cavein to the United States government and abandon the 'Eternal Covenant' that you came up with.

JOSEPH SMITH: ME!? YOU are the one that told me to do that!

JESUS: Sorry; but you must have mistranslated what I told you. What part of Do NOT commit ADULTERY did you not understand?

JOSEPH SMITH: mumble....

JESUS: What did you say?

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, nothing.

JESUS: Well; it was interesting talking to you; but now I must get back to perparing a place for those who believe in Me.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, yeah; the Celestial Kingdom.

JESUS: No...

JOSEPH SMITH: The Telestial one?

JESUS: Nope.

JOSEPH SMITH: SUREly not the TERRESTRIAL one!!

JESUS: Nope. Didn't you read that the mind of man had NOT conceived of it? Paul wrote it down in 1 Corinthians 2:9.

JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.

JESUS: No; it wasn't.

JOSEPH SMITH: You SURE?

JESUS: Yes. Now I must be going: what did you say your name was again?

JOSEPH SMITH: Joseph Smith.

JESUS: Hmmmm. According to my Heavenly FAITHbook, you didn't sign in as one of my friends - sorry, I never knew you.

JOSEPH SMITH: But....

The final arbiter of truth is never the scriptures.

of COURSE not!!

In conclusion let us summarize this grand key, these “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet”, for our salvation depends on them.

1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
4. The prophet will never lead the church astray.
5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus Saith the Lord,” to give us scripture.
7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
8. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
10. The prophet may advise on civic matters.
11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—the highest quorum in the Church.
14. The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the First Presidency—follow them and be blessed—reject them and suffer.

I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are true. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord then let us ask ourselves how well we stand with His mortal captain—how close do our lives harmonize with the Lord’s anointed—the living Prophet—President of the Church, and with the Quorum of the First Presidency.

Ezra Taft Benson

(Address given Tuesday, February 26, 1980 at Brigham Young University) http://www.lds.org/liahona/1981/06/fourteen-fundamentals-in-following-the-prophet?lang=eng

Childish insults. And an all around ignorant statement.

HMMMmmm...

Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).

Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).

Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).

Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses , vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).

President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).

James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).

More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).

President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).

President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

What I said here: [sp]A couple things; 1. You're assuming that what you believe is correct and your gospel is the same as what the original apostles preached. Has nothing to do with your response here: [daniel1212]That is absurd. We have abundant manuscript evidences attesting to the preservation of NT texts

That assuming "your gospel is the same as what the original apostles preached" was understood as impugning the integrity of the gospel texts, as Mormons have done .

Again you're assuming you're interpreting scripture correctly and that your doctrine is correct. But you have no prophet to a approve your conclusions or correct your mistakes.

Which ignores what I said, for even the veracity of the preaching of apostles was subject to testing by Scripture, which testing invalidates your prevaricating "prophets!"

You're in the same boat that the Pharisees were in. They had scripture too but rejected the prophets and relied solely on tradition and their own understanding ...and got it completely wrong.

Wrong: They, as with your leaders, presumed a level of assured veracity above that which was written, and as with your leaders held to traditions that were not Scriptural, and as with your leaders were reproved by Scripture by those whom they considered itinerant preachers. But who did not teach such nonsense as that God was a an exalted man and polygamist etc. or make false prophecies .

Unlike the Pharisees, the veracity of what I say must rest upon the weight of Scriptural substantiation, and not kill others because they disagree with me.

Preservation of text is a red herring you just introduced into this discussion.

Not if Mormons attack the integrity of the Bible. Sorry for assuming you were like those who do!

And you have it all totally backwards. Why do you think the Jews stoned the prophets? Why did they crucify Jesus? Because they would never yield to the fact they were wrong.

Because like violent and vengeful Joe Smith, they could not take reproof for long, and exalted themselves and made traditions of men equal in authority with Scripture.

The final arbiter of truth is never the scriptures. James explains, James 1: 5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

We are to go to God first in prayer and He may use the scriptures to teach us what the truth is... Seeking God certainly should come first, and wisdom as to how to obey Scripture is to be sought, but what one feels or experiences simply is not the final and sure arbiter of truth, which is absurd, and by which every cultist can justify himself as it relies upon subjective feelings versus the objective word of God.

From the time when He chose to reveal His will to an entire nation then He preserved it in writing, which is His manifest means of preservation. (Exodus 17:14; 34:1,27; Deuteronomy 10:4; 17:18; 27:3; 31:24; Joshua 1:8; 2 Chronicles 34:15,18-19; Ps. 19:7-11; 119; John 20:31; Acts 17:11; Revelation 1:1; 20:12, 15;Matthew 4:5-7; 22:29; Lk. 24:44,45; Acts 17:11)

And as is abundantly evidenced, the "word of God/the Lord" was normally written, even if subsequent to to being spoken, and as written, Scripture became the transcendent supreme substantive standard for obedience and testing and establishing truth claims as the wholly Divinely inspired and assured, Word of God.

It was not because oral tradition preserved the Word of God that brought about a national revival, but because of reading the wholly inspired-of-God written word:

And Hilkiah answered and said to Shaphan the scribe, I have found the book of the law in the house of the Lord. And Hilkiah delivered the book to Shaphan. (2 Chronicles 34:15)

Then Shaphan the scribe told the king, saying, Hilkiah the priest hath given me a book. And Shaphan read it before the king. And it came to pass, when the king had heard the words of the law, that he rent his clothes. (2 Chronicles 34:18-19)

And as is abundantly evidenced , the "word of God/the Lord" was normally written, even if subsequent to to being spoken, and as written, Scripture became the transcendent supreme substantive standard for obedience and testing and establishing truth claims as the wholly Divinely inspired and assured, Word of God.

Which is exactly what the Jews said about Jesus...

Indeed, and which the Lord said about them due to their being contrary to Scriptural Truth, and likewise and consistent with Christ then Mormonism is also shown to be critically contrary to Scriptural Truth .

They their fruits ye shall know them was the promise. What was Joseph Smith's fruits?

Every cult seeks to gain validity by obeying many Biblical principles, for the devil knows how to build a church, but their theology mixes in various amounts of damning poison, and in Mormonism this is abundantly manifest, from the nature of God , to its gospel of salvation , to its Aaronic priesthood (from blacks were excluded) to LDS elitism to Smith's fantastic seer stone fables , to his carnal life and more.

“Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken? Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD” (Ezek. 13:7, 8).

“But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed” (Gal. 6:8).

In short, your "prophets" have been tried and found wanting by the Bible which it contradicts (as well as itself ), , but since they themselves are the standard for Truth then Mormonism goes on as deceived and being deceived