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To: SunkenCiv
I'm no expert on evolution, but help me out here:

Evolution is random, right? It's not like a species decides: "I'd like to fly" and then, over millions of years, it develops wings. In fact, a species may experience genetic drift sort of "in the direction of" wings. And some of these minor genetic changes may impact some unforeseen advantage to offspring and therefore be preserved, and so over time this generic drifting may reach the point where some level of flight is possible.

The wings were not made on purpose, or for any reason, they just happened because tiny genetic changes occurred and wound up being useful at some point.

So, the fact that humans COULD metabolize ADH4 does not in any way provide evidence that we were consuming alcohol, right?

AT SOME POINT we consumed alcohol, and our ability to metabolize ADH4 came in handy then. But it's not like we specifically developed this genetic trait BECAUSE we were drinking alcohol -- that would veer toward Lamarckism, right?

So they have no idea when we started drinking alcohol.

22 posted on 12/25/2014 5:24:15 PM PST by ClearCase_guy (Democrats have a lynch mob mentality. They always have.)
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To: ClearCase_guy
So they have no idea when we started drinking alcohol.

Yep... but they're being paid to come up with a date.....

24 posted on 12/25/2014 5:29:17 PM PST by kjam22 (my music video "If My People" at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74b20RjILy4)
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To: ClearCase_guy

>>Evolution is random, right?<<

Wrong


26 posted on 12/25/2014 5:34:02 PM PST by freedumb2003 (AGW: Settled Science? If so, there would only be one model and it would agree with measurements)
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To: ClearCase_guy
So they have no idea when we started drinking alcohol.

We were genetically designed by space aliens. We learned to drink in order to deal with the grief of them abducting our cows and women all the time. Space jerks is more like it.

29 posted on 12/25/2014 5:46:56 PM PST by Sirius Lee (All that is required for evil to advance is for government to do "something")
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To: ClearCase_guy

The wings were not made on purpose, or for any reason, they just happened because tiny genetic changes occurred and wound up being useful at some point.


What they fail to teach anymore is systems. All these proposed random changes occurs in system. Make one random change in your computer system and see what happens. The system fails, it does not evolve. It may maintain operation if it is well written to anticipate problems but it does not evolve.

What Darwin proposed is not right. There was no new genetic information expressed in his finches or the black black/gray squirrels documented later. It was expression of existing genetic information, Mendel was a better scientist. Darwins finches “evolved” back to earlier beak types as the environment changed they did not evolve through randomness. LET ME REPEAT, THERE WAS NO NEW GENETIC INFORMATION.

There has been no documentation of a method for random new genetic information except the ninja turtles and other comic books. Now if you disagree with me you might willing to test your theory by standing in a nuclear reactor, that will introduce some randomness for you and your maybe children...........


43 posted on 12/25/2014 6:25:04 PM PST by PeterPrinciple (Thinking Caps are no longer being issued but there must be a warehouse full of them somewhere.)
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To: ClearCase_guy
I'm no expert on evolution, but help me out here:

I'm no expert either, but I've recently been attending some university level classes that I think help me understand what is going on.

Evolution is random, right?

The original mutation can be considered random to at least some extent, but that's only part of the process, and a lot of the rest of it isn't random. Whether that mutation continues in the gene pool, or vanishes, is a lot less random.

So, the fact that humans COULD metabolize ADH4 does not in any way provide evidence that we were consuming alcohol, right?

No, but the fact that that mutation persisted and became dominant suggests there was an advantage to it. And as the ability to metabolise alcohol has obvious advantages in terms of opening up a wider variety of food sources (a primary need), it would be considered a reasonable assumption. A mathematical certainty? No. But with ever increasing numbers over time with the mutation, you'd expect it to have an effect reasonably quickly (on an evolutionary timescale).

47 posted on 12/25/2014 7:16:12 PM PST by naturalman1975 ("America was under attack. Australia was immediately there to help." - John Winston Howard)
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To: ClearCase_guy

“Evolution is random, right? It’s not like a species decides: “I’d like to fly” and then, over millions of years, it develops wings. In fact, a species may experience genetic drift sort of “in the direction of” wings.”
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The way it was explained to me was that after many generations of an animal stretching it’s head and neck to reach the fruit on a tree, then voila- A giraffe is evolved!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

“The giraffe was one of the many species first described by Carl Linnaeus in 1758. He gave it the binomial name Cervus camelopardalis. Morten Thrane Brünnich classified the genus Giraffa in 1772.[14] In the early 19th century, Jean-Baptiste Lamarck believed the giraffe’s long neck was an “acquired characteristic”, developed as generations of ancestral giraffes strove to reach the leaves of tall trees.[15] This theory was eventually rejected, and scientists now believe the giraffe’s neck arose through Darwinian natural selection—that ancestral giraffes with long necks thereby had a competitive advantage that better enabled them to reproduce and pass on their genes.[15]”
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giraffe


49 posted on 12/25/2014 7:40:40 PM PST by matthew fuller (Obama, McConnell, and Boehner - the first step into a thousand years of darkness.)
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To: ClearCase_guy

> that would veer toward Lamarckism, right?

Aye, there’s the rub.


58 posted on 12/26/2014 1:22:38 AM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/ _____________________ Celebrate the Polls, Ignore the Trolls)
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To: ClearCase_guy; SunkenCiv; kjam22; freedumb2003; PeterPrinciple
ClearCase_guy: "Evolution is random, right?
It's not like a species decides: "I'd like to fly" and then, over millions of years, it develops wings."

Yes, there is a certain randomness to the small number of mutations each individual is born with.
But there is nothing random -- let me repeat, nothing random -- about the actions of natural selection on our various features & capabilities.
Those mutations which improve our survivability get retained and passed on to future generations.
Those which damage us in significant ways soon disappear from our gene pool -- "soon" in evolutionary terms.

Indeed, life is entirely purposeful, and its purpose is to maximize itself, and any mutations which have that effect -- whether "random" or otherwise -- will be selected for passing on to future generations.

So, no, there's nothing Lamarckian about it.

69 posted on 12/26/2014 8:41:10 AM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective.)
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