Few grandparents until 30,000 years ago

Telegraph UK ^ | July 20, 2011 | Martin Beckford

[SunkenCiv]

Grandparents barely existed until as recently as 30,000 years, research suggests, because early humans died so young. But when people did start to survive into older age, it had "far-reaching effects" that led to the development of new tools and art forms. The advantages that humans enjoyed by having larger families with older relatives could have helped them "out-compete" rivals such as Neanderthals, it is claimed...

In the article, Rachel Caspari describes how analysis of the teeth of Neanderthals found in Croatia, who lived about 130,000 years ago, suggests "no one survived past 30". Because of gaps in the fossil record, she and colleagues tried to estimate when grandparents became common by working out how many individuals from different prehistoric groups reached 30. They calculated the ratio of older to younger adults -- the OY ratio -- in fossil samples of 768 individuals spanning 3million years, stretching back from the most primitive australopithecines to modern Europeans of the early Upper Paelolithic, who lived between 30,000 and 20,000 years ago. The researchers found that for every 10 young adult Neanderthals, who probably died between 15 and 30, there were just four who survived past 30 and so lived long enough to see their children have babies themselves...

By passing down knowledge of what plants were poisonous or how to sharpen a stone blade, elders would have improved early humans' skills and helped them thrive.

[SunkenCiv]

This article is about another piece on "why did N go extinct?!?" by Rachel Caspari who should know better.

The Neandertal Enigma
by James Shreeve
in local libraries

Frayer's own reading of the record reveals a number of overlooked traits that clearly and specifically link the Neandertals to the Cro-Magnons. One such trait is the shape of the opening of the nerve canal in the lower jaw, a spot where dentists often give a pain-blocking injection. In many Neandertal, the upper portion of the opening is covered by a broad bony ridge, a curious feature also carried by a significant number of Cro-Magnons. But none of the alleged 'ancestors of us all' fossils from Africa have it, and it is extremely rare in modern people outside Europe." [pp 126-127]

[SunkenCiv]

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Race and Human Evolution: A Fatal Attraction by Milford Wolpoff and Rachel Caspari hardcover

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[SunkenCiv]

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[SunkenCiv]

In the interests of full disclosure, I need to point out that NONE of my grandparents were around until the 19th century.

[dhs12345]

Interesting. Read that the reason women live longer is to provide support for raising the grandchildren. Cause and effect is debatable but grandmothers performed an important role in the family back with life was tougher.

“...because early humans died so young.” Some (many?) environmentalists dream and maybe even wish for humans to return to this existence. They believe that there are too many humans.

[2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten]

So way back in the day life itself was like certain sports where you can’t seriously compete after an age like 30. To me this suggests that man’s biggest enemy was other men. Because if you didn’t have to worry about other men, if you made it to 30 you could probably make it to 40.

My reasoning here is this. It doesn’t make sense to me that a 20 year old could outrun a tiger but a 30 year old could not. Probably neither could. Also probably a 30 year old could still hunt/gather enough calories to sustain himself.

But where 30 starts getting old is having to compete in a fight to the death with a 22 year old. In that case he’s going to have a real problem. Some might succeed based on guile and experience but probably physical strength and endurance were more important.

At some point humans probably changed some of the social parameters and stopped killing each other off as they had in the past.

[amishman]

Wow, this generation would be up the creek considering their grandparents and great-grandparents are the ones that raise and support them AND their parents.

[dhs12345]

My last grandparent just passed away — my grandmother. She was 97.

My grandparents have been a huge influence in my life. I wouldn’t be where I am now without them.

I like to think that they benefited as much as I did.

They do seem to be a lot more tolerant. Maybe because, at their age, they have figured out what is important and what is not.

I like Bill Cosby’s comedy routine (Himself). Explains it all.

[dhs12345]

Yup.

Grandparents, especially in poor and broken homes, raise the grandchildren.

Mom and Dad may be in some hole somewhere high on drugs, in prison, or not around at all. But, grandma and sometimes both grandma and grandpa provide a family for the children.

There would be a lot more suffering and neglect without grandparents.

[dhs12345]

More injuries at 30 than at 20. And the ability of the body to heal is better at 20 than at 30.

Think we are saying the same thing.

It also probably depends on a social structure. Elder males may have been respected for their knowledge and life experience and had to compete less with the younger males.

[libstripper]

I seriously doubt that there were that many grandmothers around until the great medical developments of the late nineteenth century, particularly in gyencology, that, for the first itme in human history, alowed most women to bear children without running as much risk of death or permanent injury as men going to war.

A good example is the many wives of Phillip II of Spain, the Armada king. He had somewhere between 6 and 8, none of whom was murdered as were two of the 6 wives of Henry VIII of England. Nevertheless, nearly all of Phililp’s wives, in spite of the best efforts of sixteenth century medicine (!!!), died either of childbirth or related complications.

[LearsFool]

Methuselah lived to a ripe old age.

[PapaBear3625]

Interesting. Read that the reason women live longer is to provide support for raising the grandchildren. Cause and effect is debatable but grandmothers performed an important role in the family back with life was tougher.

Keep in mind that women are fertile into their 40's, and thus might have young children of their own alongside their own grandchildren.

Fathers have important skills to pass along. The ability to form a good spear head or arrow point from flint is a skill that takes a while to learn, as is the ability to know likely places to find flint deposits, the best way to take down a multi-ton mammoth, etc.

[Flycatcher]

Neanderthals found in Croatia, who lived about 130,000 years ago, suggests "no one survived past 30".

Well on the plus side, at least they didn't have to put up with AARP leftist crap sent through the mail...

[LonePalm]

Age and treachery will beat youth and ability every single time.

Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)
LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)

[fightinJAG]

Thanks to Liberals, we are again headed to a place where there not only are no grandparents, but no parents. Not because of lifespan, but because of relationship span and failure to form relationships in the first place.

Which of the step-mothers, if any, is “my” mother? Which of the step-siblings and half-siblings constitute a funtional sibling group? Who is this new loser living in the mom’s bedroom and what happened to the old loser?

[dhs12345]

Yup. There was a lot of death due to childbirth. Childbirth was a HUGE liability.

The theory is a generalization.

So, what would happen to the children if Mom died in childbirth — they'd probably die too or wouldn't survive long. No offspring.

Wonder how much genetics contributed to survivable births? Probably some but not all.

Anyway, if Mom survived, she probably wouldn't have the risks of fighting or hunting. Both of which could result in serious injuries and shortened life.

Don't know. But it was an interesting theory.

[dhs12345]

Good point. But what about their mates. Excluding childbirth, there were more risks for a male — fighting and hunting.

What happens when their mates die? And what are the chances that they'd be able to find another mate?

Assumption: early/pre humans were monogamous and an elder female would be able to find a new mate.

Seems the “tribe” would end up with a lot of elder females.

[MinorityRepublican]

Uncle Sam replaced the typical American Dad.

[blam]

I expect infections of all sorts were the biggest killers.