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Neanderthals and Early Humans May Not Have Mingled Much
NY Times ^ | May 9, 2011 | Nicholas Wade

Posted on 05/10/2011 5:06:10 AM PDT by Pharmboy

An improvement in the dating of fossils suggests that the Neanderthals, a heavily muscled, thick-boned human species adapted to living in ice age Europe, perished almost immediately on contact with the modern humans who started to enter Europe from the Near East about 44,000 years ago. Until now bones from several Neanderthal sites have been dated to as young as 29,000 years ago, suggesting there was extensive overlap between the two human species. This raised the question of whether there had been interbreeding between humans and Neanderthals, an issue that is still not resolved. RSS Feed RSS Get Science News From The New York Times »

But researchers report that tests using an improved method of radiocarbon dating, based on a new way to exclude contaminants, show that most, and maybe all, Neanderthal bones in Europe are or will be found to be at least 39,000 years old. Thomas F. G. Higham, a specialist in radiocarbon dating at Oxford University, and Ron Pinhasi, an archaeologist at University College Cork in Ireland, have dated the bones of a Neanderthal child less than 2 years old whose remains were found in the Mezmaiskaya Cave in the northern Caucasus Mountains. A second Neanderthal baby, found in a lower layer in the cave, was previously dated back 29,000 years.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Science
KEYWORDS: godsgravesglyphs; humans; neandertal; neandertals; neanderthal; neanderthals
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I have thought for many years that our species wiped them out where they found them. This new and more exact dating method adds credibility to this scenario.
1 posted on 05/10/2011 5:06:15 AM PDT by Pharmboy
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To: SunkenCiv; blam; thefactor

Cro-Magnon-out-clubbing, ping...


2 posted on 05/10/2011 5:08:00 AM PDT by Pharmboy (What always made the state a hell has been that man tried to make it heaven-Hoelderlin)
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To: Pharmboy
Wiping out a related group is easy ~ show up with a new kind of headcold, maybe some TB, or possibly pneumonia.

You'll take over the cave without firing a shot.

Neanderthals appear to have lived in smaller groups than our own folks ~ which suggests they had a serious problem with infectious disease.

3 posted on 05/10/2011 5:10:35 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
I always assumed that Neanderthals were foragers while Cro-Magnons actually cultivated crops.

Sodbusters vs. Free-rangers?

Ants vs. grasshoppers?

4 posted on 05/10/2011 5:30:50 AM PDT by ZOOKER ( Exploring the fine line between cynicism and outright depression)
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To: Pharmboy
Neanderthals probably lived in the low rent district, demanded entitlements and called Early Humans ‘racist’ or something
5 posted on 05/10/2011 5:32:26 AM PDT by SMARTY (Conforming to non-conformity is conforming just the same.)
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To: ZOOKER
Agribusiness was initiated within the last 10,000 years or so ~ Cro-Magnons ate lots of meat, and picked berries, nuts and roots of different kinds.

This business of being farmers is quite new.

6 posted on 05/10/2011 5:33:53 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Pharmboy

Yeah, look at the history of violent contact between tribes of modern humans - and now contemplate the level of violence when there actually is a significant genetic difference between the groups.


7 posted on 05/10/2011 5:35:53 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: dirtboy
Exactly.

The anthropologists twist themselves into knots to try and explain everything in the most non-violent manner possible.

And the primatologists were like that also until women like Jane Goodall lived amongst apes and reported back that they were quite violent.

8 posted on 05/10/2011 5:56:45 AM PDT by Pharmboy (What always made the state a hell has been that man tried to make it heaven-Hoelderlin)
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To: Pharmboy

Native Americans were hardly the peace-loving enviro utopians as some try to portray them. They were extremly violent towards each other as well. No particular knock on them, that’s just human nature deep in the genes - a fear of someone who isn’t part of your tribe, bred that way for good reason - because in the past, someone who wasn’t part of your tribe often represented a mortal threat.


9 posted on 05/10/2011 6:01:45 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: muawiyah

The disease factor is the item I favor with my non expert opinion. So many animals of the Pleistocene disappeared, that that to me, I have to speculate that the Neanderthals succumb to the catastrophe as well. Something in the genetic makeup made them more vulnerable than the Cro Magnums that replaced them...


10 posted on 05/10/2011 6:02:46 AM PDT by LRS ("This is silly! It can't be! It can't be!!" "Oh yes it is! I said you wouldn't know the joint.")
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To: All
The Basic Non Evolution of Modern Man. The fact that we are not related to hominids other than possibly by similar design parameters, and that there is nothing on this planet which we could be descended from by any process resembling evolution.
11 posted on 05/10/2011 6:09:34 AM PDT by wendy1946
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To: dirtboy
Native Americans were hardly the peace-loving enviro utopians as some try to portray them. They were extremly violent towards each other as well. No particular knock on them, that’s just human nature deep in the genes - a fear of someone who isn’t part of your tribe, bred that way for good reason - because in the past, someone who wasn’t part of your tribe often represented a mortal threat.

It wasn't fear, it was practicality. When your tribe expands beyond the supporting capacity of your territory, the only way to avoid starvation is to invade your neighbor's territory.

As far as how Cro-mags killed off Neanderthals, a moderate advantage in speed or throwing ability translates into a BIG military advantage. If you can creep up to your enemies, throw spears at them from longer range than they can throw back, and then run away faster than they can follow, it would not take long to wipe them out.

12 posted on 05/10/2011 6:10:12 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 ("It is only when we've lost everything, that we are free to do anything" -- Fight Club)
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To: PapaBear3625
When your tribe expands beyond the supporting capacity of your territory, the only way to avoid starvation is to invade your neighbor's territory.

And you either take that territory or solve your overpopulation problem trying.

13 posted on 05/10/2011 6:13:18 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: PapaBear3625
I remember reading how appalled whites were when they saw the way Natives treated their prisoners (either whites or other Natives).

That THEY were shocked is saying something ... coming from Europeans THEMSELVES survivors of decades of internecine, abjectly bloodthirsty religious wars and wars of succession.

14 posted on 05/10/2011 6:17:21 AM PDT by SMARTY (Conforming to non-conformity is conforming just the same.)
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To: LRS
"The disease factor is the item I favor"

That makes sense. It was certainly important in the killing of many American Indians. It seems likely that infectious diseases to which they had no resistance swept through North America after the arrival of Columbus, destroying entire tribes and leaving survivors lost and vulnerable.

15 posted on 05/10/2011 6:19:06 AM PDT by Savage Beast (Truth is the first casualty of American journalism.)
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To: Pharmboy

Neantherdals are going to be needing some reparations, and interest owed over 39,000 years.

I am going to be needing my customary 30 percent cut.


16 posted on 05/10/2011 6:25:04 AM PDT by Jonty30
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To: SMARTY

Bloodthirsty religious war is a leftist fantasy. The evolutionary purpose of religion is it helps a tribe win at warfare, especially if it is a superior religion. Envy is the root cause of tribal warfare. Leftists are driven by envy so they can’t handle envy being the problem so they blame the solution.


17 posted on 05/10/2011 6:33:14 AM PDT by Reeses
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To: Pharmboy
When a Neanderthal moved next door the property values would decline and the other 'early humans' would often sell at below value. They tried desegregation in the 70s but even that didn't work.

Early humans? Is that like a morning person?
18 posted on 05/10/2011 6:38:19 AM PDT by AD from SpringBay (We deserve the government we allow.)
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To: Reeses

Does that mean that in wars, the side that wins has the superior religion? How does that work when the warring factors are of the same religion?


19 posted on 05/10/2011 6:38:51 AM PDT by stuartcr
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To: stuartcr
Having a superior religion provides an edge increasing the probability of survival. Atheists are at a disadvantage and tend to get killed off. However it is just one factor. There is little evidence Neanderthals were religious while Cro-Magnons were.
20 posted on 05/10/2011 6:50:40 AM PDT by Reeses
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