Posted on 04/21/2010 8:28:03 PM PDT by MrChips
OK, so I have read a little, listened a little, and figured that the question of Obama's citizenship and birth would never be answered, so why dive into it. But just now, I listened to Anderson Cooper on CNN (I know, I know, why am I watching PRAVDA?) blabber on and on in a very assertive, denunciatory tone to someone from Arizona over that state's recent passage of a bill requiring presidential candidates to prove their citizenship. Cooper went on ad nauseum about how stupid anyone is who questions Obama, how the birth certificate has been PROVEN to be authentic, that the matter should be settled. But the adamancy in his voice bothered me. Why is he so exercised about it if that is really true? He'd be calm, or so I said to myself. Anyway, anybody else watch this?
On the (conservative) radio news, they too say that President Obama showed his birth certificate online, proving he was born in Hawaii. No one questions the photo of a document they saw online. Anyone under 21 should head for a bar with their laptop and show the bouncer the photo of their over-21 driver’s license online.
Your thoughts are not what is important. The men who wrote the Constitution are the ones whose thoughts are important. There is so much reserached and document info about this very topic on FR that you should avail yourself of this info - there are links on this thread you could click.
We can be 100% sure what they meant, be reading the documents and decisions that they wrote, and reading the books that informed them.
Freepers have done this.
I have read them all, and all of the screeching that people who disagree are Obamabots is the biggest thing to stick out. I have read these threads like a woman obsessed for months, and never had the nerve to post what I did about my son until yesterday. I have read all of the case history many times, so you don’t really need to sound patronizing.
I am giving you a loophole case that shows why I think the USSC will not come down on your side of the fence regarding NBC. We can agree to disagree, but what you think really doesn’t hold any more weight than what I think, whether you live in a birther echo chamber or not.
lol. You aint kidding. Some posts really could just go on forever if not restrained. Sometimes one just needs to remember this is a discussion forum not a library.
I just brought the issue up about derivative citizenship, because I think it shows that the libs have blurred what it means to be an American by trying to make it impossible for anyone to identify with their own country. Instead, the "progressives" (apparently a code word that means communists) try to split people's loyalties as much as they can. After all, most communists want a Global Government with "no borders." You can't make such a system without breaking down people's identity and attachments to their country. Giving people multiple identities/citizenships does the job quite nicely...
rutabaga - read Lmo56’s comment, he answers some of your unknowns.
A manhole? (Ducking)
I only “think” what I think because I read and study what freepers who are much more intelligent than I, have researched.
I thought you just hadn’t read up.
Now I see that you value your own mental ideas over what the writers of the Constitution meant.
Your choice.
Thank you - please forgive me for taking liberty and adding the following:
To douginthearmy:
I wrote in a previous post that I thought you had potential - obviously I was wrong.
You are entitled to your opinion - but NOT this one when you are in the service and swore to defend the Constitution. To say it doen't matter betrays your oath.
If you feel so strongly that way - resign, don't re-enlist ... GET OUT! Then, you are entitled to THIS opinion. But, as long as you wear that uniform - you are legally, ethically, and MORALLY obligated to protect that precious document.
I don't agree with your opinions. But, I respect your right to have them - that is, ALL BUT THIS ONE. thats what America is all about. Shame on you - you are pissing on the graves of all that have fallen in defense of our country ...
Totally disagree. Attending school and traveling is not the same as being raised there. Why do you think it was important to put in a 2nd requirement to have been a resident of the US for at least 14 years???
I honestly believe that what you are doing is jumping through all sorts of loopholes because you desperately want your son to be natural born, but he isn’t. So you are doing anything and everything you can to justify it even though the writings of our founding fathers, previous court cases, and even Congressman Bingham in 1866 proves your ideology to be completely wrong. You don’t have the right to just throw out the opinions of the founders and re-write the intent of the Constitution because you don’t like it.
Why its that important to you I have no idea. Your son has all the rights and privileges of citizenship that everyone else has, including running for any public office other than the oval one, and including the right to have 2/3 of his paycheck confiscated by our corrupted government.
None of your opinions change what the founders wrote on the subject and everything Obama has done in the past year proves them to have been right!!!!!!!!!!!
If the circumstances are as you described, your son is a natural born citizen and you should just ignore this stuff. Not that it’s particularly important unless he plans on being President.
Rutabaga, you said you have read these threads for months and have read “everything” and still think that the writers of the Constitution mean something completely different from what they have said they meant.
So I checked your posting history, since I have read obsessively about 0bama’s eligibility for 2 years on FR and never saw your name before on any of those threads.
Since your signup date, you’ve generated (only) 6 pages of comments, and none about eligibility issues. So you read for months and *never* commented until now, and totally disagree with what highly intelligent and knowledgebalbe people quote, think and disucuss. And your only reason is because you “think” the founders meant something other than what they wrote.
Weird.
One thing about FR - it’s very easy to read peoples’ posting history and it is often *very* revealing.
Since the founders didn’t say,”Hey, for the sake of posterity, this is exactly what NBC means,” it is up to the courts to decide. There is a good chance that they would rule in your opinion. There is a good chance that they would rule in mine.
I respect the founders of my country very much, but since my son does not have a birth father even listed on his birth certificate, there is no proof that he was born to someone who wasn’t a US citizen father. As he was born and raised in the US, and barring unforseen future events, will always be an American, I can’t see how you can make the argument that he is definitively NOT a NBC.
I understand that we know that some of the founders had read Vattel. I understand that some of them would have concluded that two citizen parents is a requirement. I do not think they were a group of men who all agreed on everything. Looking at the arguments they had over so many issues, I believe that this is no stretch of the imagination to think they might not have agreed on a definition of NBC. Is that my opinion? Sure. Didn’t realize that became something not to voice on Free Republic. Sure didn’t used to be that way. :(
It sounds to me as though your emotional weight is influencing your opinion.
We will see.
Who cares what your posting history is. You asked a question and it’s answer is straight forward. Plenty of highly intelligent and knowledgeable people understand the obvious fact that your son, if his situation is as you described, is a natural born citizen.
You know, LJ, I was hesitant to respond to you, because I see that you have a great tendancy to invalidate freepers who don’t have as much time on their hands to post as you, trying to make them inferior somehow. Whatever. I’d invite you to look on my computer and see how many threads I have clicked. To sort of paraphrase you, I read a LOT of people who are better at voicing opinions than I am. I am not a good arguer. I get angry and defensive. However, I really like to read other people arguing over things that are meaningful to me. Freaky? Perhaps. I think there are a lot of people like me who read threads but don’t have any reason to add their opinions, when most of them have been stated over and over again.
Frankly, your opinion of how good a freeper I am matters not a drip. You are a bully.
I have been reading FR daily since 1999. I have seen lots of people kicked off for disagreeing with the powers that be. Perhaps I stick around because it is the best format to read news, for me. If you don’t believe me, don’t. I really don’t think I have to prove anything to you. I have lots of Freepers who post to me because I am on their ping lists. Do I really need to find some people to vouch for me, to have my opinion stated on a blog?
Even IF he was born in Hawaii, NBC status in NOT met. You cannot be NBC and have dual citizenship. His parents must be citizens, with allegiance to no other nation. It was a requirement for only the President and VP. Why is that?
Nobody wants to touch that fact, it is too uncomfortable for people to accept because it is not inclusive. It would mean some citizens would not qualify.
She will be 93 in June, but she is fading rapidly. Doesn’t remember much of her life in particulars and forgets within minutes. But she is indeed an angelic person in so many ways.
Did Obama spend more time in Indonesia than JQA did in Europe and Russia?
I think you guys are jumping through hoops to try and get rid of Obama sooner than later. I think the man is a horrible thug who commits crimes on a daily basis. I do not think (if born in HI) that he is not a NBC.
I can’t imagine my son actually having any desire to be president. He is not nearly outgoing or ego-centric enough. In fact, I have a daughter who IS a dual citizen, and I might agree that the case that a dual citizen can’t run for president is not illogical. We lived in Sweden for a few years, and her father wouldn’t let me bring her back to the US until we applied for dual citizenship, so, in order to bring her back to the US, I complied. However, Sweden didn’t automatically call us and offer Swedish citizenship. She actually moved to Sweden with a US passport that had a residency visa in it. Her dad was a Swedish citizen, and it still needed to be applied for.
Feel free to think I am nuts for not wanting my kids to be labelled as some type of sub-citizen so you can continue to make the argument that Obama is illegal.
I can’t imagine he would want to run for president. He is shy and likes to draw buildings. I don’t think there is anything that says he needs to be a definitive NBC to be an architect! :)
(BTW, since I have outed myself as a bad guy here, I want to thank you for all of the reasonable arguments you make in the face of frothing disdain. You are one of my favorites.) :)
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