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To: little jeremiah

Since the founders didn’t say,”Hey, for the sake of posterity, this is exactly what NBC means,” it is up to the courts to decide. There is a good chance that they would rule in your opinion. There is a good chance that they would rule in mine.
I respect the founders of my country very much, but since my son does not have a birth father even listed on his birth certificate, there is no proof that he was born to someone who wasn’t a US citizen father. As he was born and raised in the US, and barring unforseen future events, will always be an American, I can’t see how you can make the argument that he is definitively NOT a NBC.
I understand that we know that some of the founders had read Vattel. I understand that some of them would have concluded that two citizen parents is a requirement. I do not think they were a group of men who all agreed on everything. Looking at the arguments they had over so many issues, I believe that this is no stretch of the imagination to think they might not have agreed on a definition of NBC. Is that my opinion? Sure. Didn’t realize that became something not to voice on Free Republic. Sure didn’t used to be that way. :(


313 posted on 04/22/2010 12:01:15 PM PDT by Rutabega (European 'intellectualism' has NOTHING on America's kick-a$$ism!)
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To: Rutabega

It sounds to me as though your emotional weight is influencing your opinion.

We will see.


314 posted on 04/22/2010 12:02:37 PM PDT by little jeremiah
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To: Rutabega
Identifying what Natural born citizens are used to be fairly straightforward back in the day. The problem is that the rules governing citizenship for the last 70 years are radically different than they always were for the majority of US history. (You couldn't have dual citizenship in the US before the 1950s when SCOTUS decided differently...before SCOTUS ruled otherwise you would lose your US citizenship if you tried to hold dual citizenship.) However, since you are a descendant of Revolutionary war heroes, let's talk about what NBC meant and how citizenship worked before the commies messed up the definition of the word.

For 2/3 of American history women had what was called "derivative citizenship." I believe that women would have held this type of citizenship in the US from the time when the Constitution was adopted up until about the 1930s. As you may be aware, American law and pretty much the whole Western world determined one's citizenship primarily through the Father and thus all women were considered to be the citizenship of their father if they were single or of their husband if they were married.This was considered the Natural law and order of things. Consequently, spouses would always be the same citizenship and children would always natural born if their father was an American even if their mother had been born a British subject.However,under the old system, Children born outside of marriage would receive their mother's citizenship if the father was unknown.

Since you were unmarried at the time of your birth and the Father was not legally recognized, your son would have probably inherited your citizenship, and consequently, there is a high chance that under the law your son would have been considered a NBC under the old system. However, as you noted earlier the lack of a legal definition, will allow the courts to fudge the definition of the word NBC to mean whatever they want, whether it was our Founder's intent or not. Who knows what a court might rule on the subject today

By the way, it sounds like you've got some good people in your blood. I hope you don't let your son forget what his ancestor's did and what they stood for.

327 posted on 04/22/2010 12:56:36 PM PDT by old republic
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