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Birtherism For Dummies
Vanity | 02/19/2010 | Wizard1961

Posted on 02/19/2010 5:51:27 AM PST by wizard1961

If BHO is removed from office because he is not a natural citizen, he then becomes a race martyr and Biden becomes president. Hillary probably becomes VP. How would this help conservatives in 2010 and 2012 -- it would hurt us, right?

If the Lewinsky debacle had removed Clinton, Gore would have become President and cruised to his own electorial victory. This would have been a disaster.

I agree there is a puzzle here. I agree there is free speech & everyone has a right to pursue this. My question: is there some angle here that I've missed that makes this smart?


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: birthcertificate; birther; birthers; certifigate; naturalborncitizen; obama; sniff; teaper
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To: JustPiper
Don’t they realize the truth one way or another would make us stop?

The clouds could part, a beam of light could shine, choirs of angels could sing, and the mighty hand of God could descend from Heaven with a copy of Obama's long form in His hand and almost all the Birthers around here would say, "Yeah, but that doesn't really prove anything."

201 posted on 02/20/2010 2:00:53 PM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March

Arthur,

From what I can tell, you’re a reasonable birther. Unplug, dude. I did.

Tex


202 posted on 02/20/2010 2:02:44 PM PST by BuckeyeTexan (Integrity, Honesty, Character, & Loyalty still matter)
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To: Non-Sequitur

Amen! Preach it , brother.


203 posted on 02/20/2010 2:05:40 PM PST by BuckeyeTexan (Integrity, Honesty, Character, & Loyalty still matter)
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To: EnderWiggins

Welcome to FR.


204 posted on 02/20/2010 2:06:46 PM PST by BuckeyeTexan (Integrity, Honesty, Character, & Loyalty still matter)
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To: tired_old_conservative
Uh, it’s been defined in an actual recent court decision quoting quite extensively from a Supreme Court case to mean exactly the opposite of what you’re pretending it means.

Perhaps, but until the U.S. Department of Foreign Affairs tells American citizens born abroad to two U.S. citizens that they are, without doubt, eligible to the presidency, then Obama's situation remains muddy, IMHO. These are non-naturalized American citizens.

7 FAM 1131.6-2 Eligibility for Presidency
(TL:CON-68; 04-01-1998)

a. It has never been determined definitively by a court whether a person who acquired U.S. citizenship by birth abroad to U.S. citizens is a natural born citizen within the meaning of Article II of the Constitution and, therefore, eligible for the Presidency.

b. Section 1, Article II, of the Constitution states, in relevant part that "No Person except a natural born Citizen ... shall be eligible for the Office of President;"

c. The Constitution does not define "natural born". The "Act to establish an Uniform Rule of Naturalization", enacted March 26, 1790, (1 Stat. 103,104) provided that, "...the children of citizens of the United States, that may be born ... out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens: Provided that the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States."

d. This statute is no longer operative, however, and its formula is not included in modern nationality statutes. In any event, the fact that someone is a natural born citizen pursuant to a statute does not necessarily imply that he or she is such a citizen for Constitutional purposes.

U.S. Foreign Affairs Manual
205 posted on 02/20/2010 2:21:33 PM PST by BuckeyeTexan (Integrity, Honesty, Character, & Loyalty still matter)
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To: BuckeyeTexan

I do. I just got up. Answering all my replies. I’ll be back to this in a minute.

parsy, who awakens!


206 posted on 02/20/2010 2:53:37 PM PST by parsifal (Abatis: Rubbish in front of a fort, to prevent the rubbish outside from molesting the rubbish inside)
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To: BuckeyeTexan
If Obama produced the long form for you tomorrow that says he was born in Hawaii, the CBC would call its authenticity into question "because Obama's had two plus years to create a perfect forgery."

Perhaps, but I think you might be discounting the whole raison d'etre for the de Vattel/two parents as citizens argument.

The NBC argument arose precisely because of the realization that wrenching an authentic Hawaii'an BC -- short or long form -- from Obama, would kill the eligibility issue, because the document would be authentic, according to the State of Hawaii, and lacking any Federal law standardizing birth certificates across the states, a Federal court would have to accept the certificate as authenticated by the state.

So the battle plan altered: if a court case produced an authenticated chain-of-custody certificate, the eligibility issue would fallback to the two-parent de Vattel fantasy, which, being an issue unlikely to be accepted for argument by the courts, would perpetuate the conspiracy argument ad infinitum.

207 posted on 02/20/2010 2:56:27 PM PST by browardchad ("Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own fact." - Daniel P Moynihan)
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To: Non-Sequitur

So none of the steam would be taken out? I think it would diffuse the movement. We FReepers, on the other hand, have this terrorist-loving, Ayers-loving, Rezco-hugging, Alinski-preaching radical’s number. So of course this forum will never trust a guy who should ever be trusted.


208 posted on 02/20/2010 3:17:46 PM PST by Arthur Wildfire! March (PBU SBC: Put this Behind Us, Show Birth Certificate. Put [this] Behind Us, S.B. Coward.)
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To: BuckeyeTexan

I’m no lawyer, but ...

Legally, I would err on the side of ‘qualified’ with any wiggle room. [Innocent until proven guilty — even for BO.] Besides, I personally think that states and voters should interpret this. But that doesn’t mean we can’t raise cain.


209 posted on 02/20/2010 3:20:24 PM PST by Arthur Wildfire! March (PBU SBC: Put this Behind Us, Show Birth Certificate. Put [this] Behind Us, S.B. Coward.)
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To: wizard1961
It's a CONSTITUTIONAL AND LEGAL ISSUE. You want to ignore the Constitution for political reasons but still call yourself a Conservative?

If he wasn't born here and is legally ineligible, so be it. Let the courts and Congress deal with it, regardless of the outcome. Obama was a Constitutional Lawyer for crying out loud.

I can't believe Republicans, they have no principles.

210 posted on 02/20/2010 3:20:42 PM PST by FTJM
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To: BuckeyeTexan

Dude, your answer nailed it! Mathematically, there is an exponential function between the amount of paperwork expressed by the following formula:

z = pieces of paper presented by Obama
i = imaginary items of evidence
y = number of birthers examining a particular issue
c = number of possible conspiracies

whereby:

c = z(i x y) to the fourth power

I am still refining the parameters and I think that “i” is approaching infinity. I may have to use irrational numbers before the formula is complete.

But I can say this with certainty. If Obama puts forth 10 pages of evidence, you would do well to invest all available cash in International Paper, and maybe set aside a few hundred acres of timber land. Plus, stock up on toilet paper. It may become scarce.

parsy, the prepared


211 posted on 02/20/2010 4:01:13 PM PST by parsifal (Abatis: Rubbish in front of a fort, to prevent the rubbish outside from molesting the rubbish inside)
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To: browardchad

You’re probaly right about that. I’ll concede that point.


212 posted on 02/20/2010 4:29:52 PM PST by BuckeyeTexan (Integrity, Honesty, Character, & Loyalty still matter)
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To: Non-Sequitur

I don’t like the stigma of “Birther” because I agree with them! But If he could either prove his birth or being a CIA operative , thus dispelling the wonder of why he is the way he is, then I will continue to be haunted by not knowing.

More important to me than a BC is disproving his loyalities to Islaam, THAT he cannot do


213 posted on 02/20/2010 4:47:30 PM PST by JustPiper (WARNING PUBS: WE WILL BE WATCHING YOUR EVERY WORD NEXT WEEK!!!)
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2454803/posts?page=213#213


214 posted on 02/20/2010 4:48:11 PM PST by JustPiper (WARNING PUBS: WE WILL BE WATCHING YOUR EVERY WORD NEXT WEEK!!!)
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To: BuckeyeTexan

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2454803/posts?page=213#213


215 posted on 02/20/2010 4:48:45 PM PST by JustPiper (WARNING PUBS: WE WILL BE WATCHING YOUR EVERY WORD NEXT WEEK!!!)
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To: BuckeyeTexan

Probaly = probably. Ugh.


216 posted on 02/20/2010 5:36:05 PM PST by BuckeyeTexan (Integrity, Honesty, Character, & Loyalty still matter)
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To: wizard1961

DO NOT LISTEN TO THE SANBALLATS and TOBIAHS


217 posted on 02/20/2010 7:13:08 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (There is no civility in the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USA)
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To: wizard1961
" Yes, but style still matters. When Coulter calls someone on the right a kook... you may not be drunk... but you should probably sit & reflect for a minute or two. "

Did Noah listen to his critics ? no....
218 posted on 02/20/2010 7:15:30 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (There is no civility in the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USA)
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To: wizard1961
" Well, okay "

You sound very enthusiastic... come on now, pull yourself up by the boot straps.
219 posted on 02/20/2010 7:17:10 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (There is no civility in the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USA)
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To: wintertime
What is amazing is that this information about Obama’s eligibility is surging through the population in spite of the media blackout ( and the active opposition to stifle it )
Merely through the Internet and word of mouth people are learning about the issue.

Yes, the Sanballats and Tobiahs are out in force.

The God of Israel shall send a whirlwind, they shall all be rebuked and dumbfounded....
220 posted on 02/20/2010 7:19:52 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (There is no civility in the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USA)
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