I sure wish I was off work for the day. Y'all hold down the fort till I get back, okay?
Posted on 08/13/2004 9:36:00 AM PDT by IdaBriggs
Hello. I am hoping you can help me.
I am trying to "reach out" to your side of the world in an effort to help each side understand the other. I apologize in advance if I offend or upset any of you, because that is NOT my intention. I hope by putting my "real name" on this post, you will view what I am about to say in the sincere way I mean it.
I am somewhat frightened of you.
Again, I apologize if I am offending, but I thought you should know about it. I also know I am not alone in my feelings about you because I have talked with other people who feel the same way. We think you are trying to impose your religion and way of life on the rest of us.
I know most of you are good people. You are kind and generous with your friends, family and neighbors. You help strangers change tires, work as teachers, risk your lives in the service of others -- all things everyone admires, respects and honors. Those of us on "the other side" do the same thing.
But sometimes you talk in painful ways about “evil” as if to associate us with "demons" and "satan" because we don't agree with your path. That is very hurtful, and it makes us feel like you don't really see us as fellow human beings with different understandings of God. I am a gardener by hobby, and not always a very good one. My husband likes to tease me about "killing plants" instead of growing them because sometimes I over water or put too much fertilizer on them, yet every year I keep trying, and gradually, my garden is starting to become beautiful. I love roses in particular, and am reminded every day how wonderful God is because He made so many different kinds – I have three different red roses alone, and each one is perfect! I have seven different colors of Petunias, and use them to explain how God loves people of all colors to my neighbor's children. I guess that is why I believe you, who scare me so, really do have love in your hearts for all of us, even though sometimes it doesn't seem that way.
The worst times are when the topics of Abortion and Gay Sex come up. No one would ever force you to have an Abortion or indulge in Gay Sex in America EVER, yet you persist in making these topics of conversation as if they trump all other considerations. The only way I can reconcile this with a rational viewpoint is if I think you believe you are trying to SAVE those who don't believe the way you do from Hell. This seems to be a very loving action on your part, but feels rude and controlling in a not-positive way to the rest of us. Many of us do not believe these things will result in eternal damnation, but are simply part of God’s plan for each individual.
If you are truly horrified by the thought of these things, I don’t know what to say to make it easier for you to understand, but I will still try. I guess it would be like making everyone not wear jewelry or make up because some churches believe adornment is demonstrating vanity; it may end up being something we are all judged by, but it may also simply be a misreading or misinterpretation of the text. I am not saying your adherence to the tenets of your faith is wrong; I am saying other people have a right to love God in their own ways, and our civil laws should not be about defining “sin” but crime.
I say again, I am not meaning to offend. I have a very strong faith in God, and trust him to do the right thing. I don't like hearing people say that God is judging all of America based on who is President; both men have qualities worthy of admiration at some level, and both are interviewing for the job of enforcing our constitution. It demands we keep church and state as separate institutions so that we don't have wars in this country over religion (like they do in Ireland with Catholics and Protestants or in Iraq with Sunni's and Shiites). It demands I respect your right NOT to have an abortion if you don't want one, and NOT to indulge in gay sex if you don't want to, and to follow the teachings of your faith in the way you best understand them. It demands we all work "for the common defense, promote the general welfare and ensure the blessings of liberty for ourselves and our posterity" and on behalf of that, I am reaching out to you to find out how we can frame the debates on these things without heaping scorn and shame upon each other. No matter what the results of the November 2, 2004, election, I personally want all Americans to be proud of our country, and the way we run it.
I know I am already.
In Humble Sincerity, Ida M. Briggs
I sure wish I was off work for the day. Y'all hold down the fort till I get back, okay?
I am trying to "reach out" to your side of the world in an effort to help each side understand the other. I apologize in advance if I offend or upset any of you, because that is NOT my intention. I hope by putting my "real name" on this post, you will view what I am about to say in the sincere way I mean it.Welcome to FreeRepublic.com .....
Ida,
I was pro-choice for a long time, until I was pregnant with my first child and realized abortion is murder. A British doctor recently developed a new kind of ultra sound machine that shows a BABY in the womb at 12 weeks. It kicks, yawns, opens & closes it's eyes...everything a newborn does. http://quickstart.clari.net/voa/art/as/DB8BAC63-0B98-49B0-8CC09594FE080394.html.
Couple this with how dishonest the abortion industry (yes, it is an industry) is and I don't know how anyone could be pro-choice.
Think about it beyond the "it's MY body" argument for a minute. Those in the movement dehumanize abortion as much as possible, even to the point of ignoring the emotional toll killing a life has on the woman...in her heart, SHE knows what she's done. How can a woman make an informed choice without the whole truth? As long as its legal, every woman considering such a "choice" should have to have an ultra sound beforehand. I'd bet that reality would make the abortion rate go way down. When making pro-choice arguments, advocates always argue the most extreme circumstances...rape and incest. These cases are almost statistically insignificant, but since they play on our emotions, they drag them out every single time they try to support their position. Nor are most abortions sought by poor, inner-city minorities...most are white, single women. Then there's the "women dying from back alley abortions" argument they always trot out. Even the founder of NARAL (who is now pro-life) admits the statistics used were false. Now, I do believe no one should have to raise a child they don't want and aren't ready for, but there are plenty of loving couples who would love to adopt such a child.
As for "gay marriage", I could care less what 2 consenting adults do with each other. However, the LACK of respect shown by gays and their supporters and their unwillingness to engage in any kind of public dialogue, preferring to run to the courts and call everyone who doesn't agree a "bigot" is infuriating. The majority in this country oppose gay marriage, not all of them are part of the Christian right. Even leaving religion out of the debate, marriage between a man and a woman is a tradition 1000's of years old...you can't expect the average person to suddenly accept a new definition without any kind of public discussion. Gay people talk about wanting the same "rights" as everyone else, but are completely unwilling to consider anyone on the other side of the debate. There are people with deeply held religious beliefs that consider homosexuality a sin...shouldn't they have the "right" to NOT support (through their tax dollars) a lifestyle that goes against their beliefs? Instead of addressing these issues, people on the left find it easier to just decide these people are bigots and discount them. It seems it's okay to be "intolerant" if you have "politically correct" beliefs.
I have been on both sides of the political aisle in my life and I find the right to be much more tolerant than the left. In my experience, the left spends half their energy forcing their beliefs on everyone else and the other half accusing the right of doing the very same thing. Go figure.
Cindie
LOL! Oooooooooh...He called me a "Troll"...
Find a new game to entertain yourself. And leave me out of it.
You said it. I didnt.
Find a new game to entertain yourself. And leave me out of it.
We're on to you.
Show some self respect and fly away on your broom.
Wait wait wait...You want to save an unborn person's life (and I presume, their soul), yet you could care less about another living human's soul? You can not pick and choose who to save. You have to save EVERYONE's life and soul as much as possible. I mean honestly, no wonder the left thinks what they think about the right.
That is the procedure called intact dilation and extration and is used when a late term pregnancy has died in womb.
You presume incorrectly. The state of a person's soul is between them and their God. Not my affair.
However, the law, which I am concerned with, is charged with protecting the rights of all people.
You can not pick and choose who to save.
Yes, I can. I do.
You have to save EVERYONE's life and soul as much as possible. I mean honestly, no wonder the left thinks what they think about the right.
As I said - the law, which is my concern - is about protecting each individual's rights, including their right to life.
A person's relationship with their God is none of my concern.
look what I just found....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2209654
bragging about it...
No...she can not have an abortion just hours before. Roe Vs Wade was pretty clear that post viablity abortions are no nos and it is too dangerous anyway to have a third trimester abortion unless the baby has already died.
What's a partial birth abortion then?
I believed I identified your problem.
Ida freepmailed me regarding her post #35, which asserts that abortion is all a part of God's plan. I freepmailed her back explaining how I personally know that she is wrong. I also invited her to copy my comments and post them wherever she cares. I'm always up for a pro-life debate.
Has she been banned here?
Would you care to comment on the private mail between us? Have you posted it over at DU yet? I invite you to do so, I really do. Post it here, I won't ask to have it pulled. I'll simply use it as ammo against your stance on abortion.
Nope. I'm trying to stop the left from imposing their religion - their "god" being the state - on us.
But sometimes you talk in painful ways about “evil” as if to associate us with "demons" and "satan" because we don't agree with your path.
Some people are evil. That's just the way it is.
The worst times are when the topics of Abortion and Gay Sex come up. No one would ever force you to have an Abortion or indulge in Gay Sex in America EVER, yet you persist in making these topics of conversation as if they trump all other considerations.
First of all, gay sex is not an issue for me. I don't care what two gay people do in their bedrooms. It's none of my business. That's a two way street. I want it to STAY none of my business. That means I don't want it shoved in my face, or taking place in the public restrooms.
As for abortion, it's wrong. Period. That's not a religion stance at all either in my case. It's a libertarian one involving use of force from one being against another. One being murdering another being is wrong in all religions, and all societies.
The only way I can reconcile this with a rational viewpoint is if I think you believe you are trying to SAVE those who don't believe the way you do from Hell.
Not in my case. I don't chose whether anyone goes to hell. That's God's choice and is personal between one individual and God.
I am saying other people have a right to love God in their own ways, and our civil laws should not be about defining “sin” but crime.
Abortion (I was born at 6 months BTW) is a lot more than simply a sin. It's not just a religious issue, but one of life and death.
So you spend your free time getting state and federal money for public schools so that they are all well constructed and have quality teachers, and making sure daycares are well run? Great! :) I am very happy that you just are not concerned with an in utero life, but making sure that the childhood of these children are good so they can grow up to be productive citizens.
Unless you do not care about them after they are born, but then why would you care about them before they are born?
There is no such thing as a partial birth abortion. I asked my doctor and he told me that there is something called an intact dilation and extraction that is used when a baby has died but that is all that he knew of.
Ohhh. So the baby is already dead. That would explain why the doctor is inserting scissors into its skull instead of just pulling it out all the way. What exactly is the doctor doing? Giving the baby a haircut?
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