WAS OBAMA ONCE AN INDONESIAN CITIZEN? HERE’S WHAT WE FOUND WHEN WE WENT THERE LOOKING

The Blaze ^ | November 5, 2012 | Charles C. Johnson

[Seizethecarp]

To find out more about Obama’s time in Indonesia, TheBlaze tracked down Father Bart Janssen. He’s the elderly founder of Santo Fransiskus Assisis who we found in a monastery in Den Bosch, The Netherlands. We asked him, through a Dutch translator, what he remembers of the young Barack Obama.

Janssen doesn’t remember who registered Obama, but he recalls that Obama’s mother didn’t speak Indonesian at the time, so he thinks that both the stepfather and the mother would have been there together to register their son. He also doesn’t think the details in Obama’s registration document should be considered official declarations of his faith or citizenship because it wasn’t a government form and people played loose with such facts at the time. For example, it was typical to register as Indonesian and Islamic just because you were living there, so the religion indicated may just be what his father put down because it was the normal thing to do.

An exit after one term from the White House could act as a catalyst for more information more quickly. An Obama win, on the other hand, would likely keep any information – at least from the president himself — sealed for at least four more years.

Voters on Tuesday, then, may be deciding more than just who the next president is – they could help decide how much more we know about the one we have now.

[Seizethecarp]

“Note to this: It is possible that the background of the LFBC is authentic. The 9’s mean - not stated.”

Arpaio’s Posse claims that the fact that the signature stamp and seal “float” in the pdf makes it impossible to have been a scan of an original paper document. The 9’s might have been lifted from sample LFBC, but if it is a paste-up job, the 9’s cannot be relied on.

I agree that your analysis is mostly plausible, but, IIRC, the INS FOIA docs show the baby name to be BHO or BHO II almost immediately...way before the divorce. I don’t buy the narrative that the divorce was needed to legitimate lack of an HI legal marriage. There is an HI marriage vital record for BHO and SADO and the INS docs record the U of HI reporting a marriage on the same date as corroborated in the divorce records.

The problem of the marriage, as seen by INS, is that it was either bigamous due to a reported Kenyan wife, or a sham, i.e. a legal ceremony but no actual intention to be married but only gain immigration status. SADO had plenty of motivation to divorce BHO Sr.! The man was a beast.

SADO is also on record at U of WA using the name Obama in 1961-62, so at a minimum her baby would presumably have the last name, Obama, and Barack is the name remembered by Toutonghi and SADOs friends as being Barry’s name.

As to why BHO didn’t mention the baby in late Aug 1961, SADO might have still been on her back from Kenya, IMO.

[Graewoulf]

PING!

[WildHighlander57]

Says “Playskool” on the side of it.

[David]

Your #360 is all unconnected nonsense--presumably you mean it that way to make it impossible to respond to.

My recounting in #340 is accurate and makes a complete case that the purported record of Stanley at the U of W based on the several purported academic documents in public circulation is fraudulent.

As to the other contentions in your #360, I am not going to take the time to address them--I doubt they have much credibility either.

[David]

Can someone refer me to the first time they heard a question about OB’s birth or eligibility issue? Or the first thread on this site.

In fact the issue has been out there for many years.

First public attention I know of was during his campaign for the Senate in 2004.

At that time, the fairy tale about Stanley as the mother and Senior as the father, was the generally accepted legend. However his published biography's recited his birth in Kenya and he went around to coffee hours telling people he was born in Kenya.

The Republican candidate, Allan Kane, properly pointed out that as the legend recited, his birth in Kenya to a US Citizen mother under the age of 18 and her husband, a non US Citizen, would not make Zero a citizen of the US at birth and since there was no other record of his citizenship on record, he was not a citizen and therefore not eligible to the office of United States Senator from Illinois.

There was also gossip in that time frame of which I do not know the origin, that zero was in fact not the child of Senior but instead the child of a prominent Islamic racist Anti-US revolutionary.

Having made some effort to look behind the gossip, I have concluded that you reach a blank wall in looking for the origin of that story. It looks to me as though that gossip was out there, probably as early as the mid-90's.

As to his eligibility to the office of President, and having had some extensive experience, not only as a Constitutional Lawyer but also on the specific issue of Article II, Sec. 1 eligibility, I am of the fairly firm view that the only applicable Constitutional eligibility issue is his birthplace--if he was born within the geographical territory of the US, he is eligible; if he was born outside the geographical territory of the US, he is not eligible.

It should be noted however that his purported prominent Islamic racist Anti-US revolutionary father was a multi generational US Citizen also born in the United States. It is still my opinion that if he was born outside the United States, he is not eligible.

I do not think the entire Indonesian Citizenship argument here is particularly relevant--even if these events affect his US status, if he is a citizen now and was born in the US, he is still eligible.

Having looked at the reams of evidentiary material with respect to his birth, it does not appear to me that he is the person who was born in Kenya.

[Seizethecarp]

Did you notice that within days of Barry posting his forged BC on the web there were hundreds of Youtubes debunking various defects in it.

When Corsi published the SADOS U of WA transcript in the widely read WND revealing the shocking proof that Barry’s Dreams narrative of the “happy family” was made up, I have not seen one member of the U of WA community come forward or U of WA threaten to sue Corsi for publishing a “forged” official record from a state archive. Link please if I missed anyone other than David with firsthand knowledge, or any legal complaint from U of WA.

Remember that most of the U of WA current Administration and faculty are Barry enthusiasts. Would they let Corsi and WND smear Barry’s sacred nativity narrative back in Hawaii just to be able to claim his mom as a former student?

Isn’t there a single Seattle or U of WA investigative journalist who would REFUTE the journalism of the folks that uncovered Barry’s deception about the little HI family “for two years before BHO Sr. left for Harvard”?

Is there a single investigative journalist, or anyone besides David associated with U of WA that has stumbled onto the Mal-Val lynchpin Filipina Anna S. Obama supposedly in Seattle in the same building with Mary Toutonghi in January of 1960 and babysitting not Barry but baby Roman Obama (currently of Ghana) who at the time was named BHO II?

Nope. We only have David who can’t tell a genuine archived transcript record from the early 1970’s that has both computer generated and hand typed data from an original entry record of 1961-62.

http://www.wnd.com/2009/08/106018/

I would expect U of WA attorneys to have been pounding on WND and Corsi’s doors demanding a retraction of the claimed U of WA transcript and a denunciation of the claim that she was a student, if this transcript was forged.

[morphing libertarian]

Thanx

[Fred Nerks]

...supposedly in Seattle in the same building with Mary Toutonghi in January of 1960...

There's got to be something in the water over there, Charlette Le Fevre telephones Mary and Mary tells her she babysat for Anna when her own daughter who was born in July 1959, was eighteen months of age, and Charlette writes that up as being 'February or March 1962' and when her mistake becomes apparent, she edits the paragraph to insuniate that Mary must have been mistaken about the age of her daughter. You insinuate she's an old woman with a poor memory.

Any way you do the math, 18 months added to July 1959 comes out as JANUARY 1961.

So what's your excuse? Memory loss, or just bad at math? That's twice you've written 1960 now. So in your book I take it, adding 18 months to July 1959 gets you to January 1960?

There's nothing wrong with Mary's memory; Charlette, like you, simply tried to belittle her to cover for her own stupidity.

Baby Sitting Barack Obama on Seattle¹s Capitol Hill by Charlette LeFevre and Philip Lipson

Seattle Museum of the Mysteries 1/28/09

Mary Toutonghi, 2009

A simple act of of kindness confirms President Barack Obama residence as an infant in 1962 on Seattle¹s Capitol Hill.

As we were researching the residence of the Capitol Hill apartment that Ann Dunham and her son Barack Obama had lived in 1961 to 1962, (1) - a residence that certainly wasn¹t Abraham Lincoln¹s log cabin but none the less historical, we were also able to find one of the former residents listed in a directory- Mary Toutonghi. Much to our delight it turned out Mary actually knew Ann Dunham and had baby sat baby Barack for two months giving insight on his first year and what it must have been like for Ann Dunham as a single parent.

Mary Toutonghi who now lives in Soldatna Alaska, (2) recalls Barack as ³a really alert baby, very happy and a good size². She does not remember him ever crying (although she adds she is sure he likely did but does not remember any undue fussing). She recalls as best she can the dates she baby sat Barack as her daughter was 18 months old and was born in July of 1959 and that would have placed the months of baby sitting Barack in January and February of 1962. [Note: 9/3/09: I believe Mary's daughter was older than what she remembered which would account for the age discrepency].

During our first interview, Mary referred to Stanley Ann Dunham as ³Anna² not knowing that it was the same name as what was listed in the Seattle City Directory. This verified for us that indeed Mary had known Ann Dunham. Anna was obviously confident enough with Mary to have her baby sit her son Barack and confide in her about her future plans. Mary strains to remember the days back over forty five years ago and relates that she did not know why Anna was in Seattle but remembers she was ³anxious to get back to her husband². ³She told me they would be going to Kenya when she finished her education which she had promised her parents when she had married, but because her husband had an obligation to his tribe she realized he would have to take another wife that was a full blooded Kenyan². Mary commented that ³I don¹t think I could have been that brave.²

Mary explained most of the people in the apartment house were Seniors and were retired so it was most likely she was the only one in the house able to baby sit Barack. Mary was a stay at home mother while her husband was taking classes at the nearby Seattle University. She lived directly below Anna and Barack in the level she calls the basement. She remembers the windows in their basement apartment being at chin level and she had a great view of the yard and trees. One day she recalls with laughter, a squirrel had fallen through the one of the ground level windows and after quickly scampering up its tree scolded the family for a good hour.

Mary goes on to relate after we sent her a 1937 photo of the apartment from Washington State Archives, the apartment Anna and Barack lived in was the on the first main floor and the windows looked out over the street. Anna and baby Barack¹s apartment in the photo were the three paned windows on the far right corner of the building above the garage. The main floor had been divided into four studio apartments about 500 square feet each- indeed, a tiny apartment compared to the White House. The first house of Barack Obama no longer exists having been torn down in 1985. An apartment complex now is on the block along with twin residential towers ³Capitol Park² owned by Seattle Housing Authority.

Mary also laughs when asked for pictures saying ³We were in survival mode and not taking pictures². Mary remembers Anna as ³very mature who never complained and met her obligations². Anna was taking night classes at the University of Washington and according to the University of Washington¹s registrar¹s office her major was listed as History. She was enrolled at the University of Washington in the fall of 1961, took a full course load in the Spring of 1962 and had her transcript transferred to the University of Hawaii in the Fall of 1962.

Along with the Seattle Polk Directory, Marc Leavipp of the University of Washington Registrar¹s office confirms 516 13th Ave. E. was the address Ann Dunham had given upon registering at the University. Today, when one looks back to the small apartment in 1962 in which a kind neighbor helped care for our nation¹s leader and a struggling mother strived to get an education, its inspiring to know that even small gestures in the most difficult of situations can help a baby rise from humble beginnings to achieve greatness.

Ann Dunham later received a Ph.D. in Anthropology from the Univ. of Hawaii.

Mary Toutonghi now lives in Soldatna Alaska and was 2001 President of the Alaska Speech-Language-Hearing Association.

And one little baby grew up to achieve the audacity of hope.

Permission to copy this article is granted provided full context is posted and credited to authors.

Mary Toutonghi photo courtesy of Mary Toutonghi and Jenny Neyman. House photo was provided by: Washington State Archives, Puget Sound Branch, King County Assessor Property Record Card collection photograph (1937). 1. Barack Obama: from Capitol Hill to Capitol Hill by Charlette LeFevre, www.capitolhilltimes.com 2. Obama baby sitter awaits new era ‹ Soldotna woman eager for former charge¹s reign By Jenny Neyman, Redoubt Reporter, Soldotna AK, 1/20/09

YOU'VE GOT TO STOP REFERRING TO CHARLETTE AS A REPORTER! -------------

CHARLETTE LE FEVRE AND PHILIP LIPSON, ORGANIZERS OF THE SEATTLE GAY PRIDE FESTIVAL, SHOWN HERE WITH LEON HENDRIX.

Who we are and why a museum is organizing a Pride Festival

The Northwest Museum of Legends and Lore is a 501(c) 3 educational non-profit supporting the humanities and established its first six years on Capitol Hill and is sponsored in part by the Raynier Foundation founded by museum supporter James W. Ray - a Capitol Hill Gay Philanthropist who supported the Humanities and created the Raynier Foundation and namesake of the James W. Ray Orion Center Youth Center for homeless youth.

The museum has scheduled events in the Northwest for the past fourteen years hosting many authors and lectures and cultural arts groups including conferences at Seattle Center and most recently the Seattle Faerie Festival. The museum still conducts the Capitol Hill Historical Ghost Tour with an extensive knowlege of the area and history highlighting the famous legends of Capitol Hill such as Bruce Lee, Kurt Cobain, Jimi Henrix, Frances Farmer and historical figures such as Bertha Knight Landes- Seattle's first woman Mayor, Roy Olmstead and many others.

Now located in the International District in Seattle, the museum remains active with the community and the Broadway Business Owners Association (BBOA) and is helping establish the first Pride Asia at Hing Hay park in the International District. Occassionally, the museum can be seen on current Travel Channel shows such as "Mysteries at the Museum", Discovery Channel and touring film groups.

[little jeremiah]

Freak Show.

[Seizethecarp]

...supposedly in Seattle in the same building with Mary Toutonghi in January of 1961...

There. Fixed it.

The corroborated fact is that it was January 1962 that Stanley Ann Dunham Obama and baby Barry moved into the same building with Toutonghi.

There is zero evidence that any Filipina alternate Obama wife named Anna S. Obama and her alternate son (who according to your Mal-Val narrative grew up to be Roman Obama ) were in Seattle in January 1961, the date you insist on based on Toutonghi’s 50 year-old dubious “as best she can remember” memory.

[Fred Nerks]

The corroborated fact is that it was January 1962 that Stanley Ann Dunham Obama and baby Barry moved into the same building with Toutonghi.

That must have been after Anna Obama moved out. Maybe there's a Seattle Polk for 1962-1963 that has Stanley Ann Dunham's name in it.

Charlette apparently only found Anna Obama at that address for 1961-1962.

Somebody goofed, if they wanted us to believe Stanley Ann and Anna were the same person, they've now got a fraudulent U of WA record that commences in September 1961.

Have you any idea where SAD was until she shows up in early 1962? She left Seattle in August 1961, according to Susan Blake, and Susan never saw her again. Susan was under the impression she was going east to join her husband, but 'her husband' was still in Hawaii.

I'm sure you'll sort it all out for us in your usual fashion, I'm fascinated by your MO. It's sort of like a bag of pretzels.

[bluecat6]

“There is an HI marriage vital record for BHO and SADO and the INS docs record the U of HI reporting a marriage on the same date as corroborated in the divorce records.”

I am fully aware of the index record on the marriage. But the question has to be what drove that entry?

Was it a legitimate marriage in February, with a legitimate marriage license that was properly registered in Maui in 1961? If so that collaborative evidence has not emerged.

Or, was index entry driven from the divorce filing? After all, to have a divorce you would have to have had a marriage. So for the state records to hang together the marriage - that may not have been previously registered with the state - would have had to have a record created during the divorce.

So I believe the net of the evidence that supports a supposed marriage is:

- Index record.
- Obama statement on his fall 1961 form.
- The divorce filing of 1964. And that filing, as we know, has a page missing.

Does these elements ‘prove’ marriage? I think not. As pointed the parties involved would have had benefit of committing fraud to resolve messy situations or possible messy situations.

What would get me to ‘proved’ status?

- Photos of happy couple.
- Direct and accurate testimony of friends and witnesses of the event.
- A legal license of the marriage with signatures and from February 1961.

I have read that faux divorces are used by illegal immigrants to create faux marriage for the purpose of getting a green card. It seems to be a relatively known and relatively common practice. So this approach is not unknown or unique to those who commit fraud for the purpose of illegal immigration.

__________________________________________

“As to why BHO didn’t mention the baby in late Aug 1961, SADO might have still been on her back from Kenya, IMO.”

Keeping with the KISS approach the concept of SAD traveling to Kenya in 1961 is difficult to accept.

The list of reasons for this statement:

- No records showing SAD traveled to Kenya.
- No records that Obama senior traveled to Kenya.
- The logistics are improbable. There were no 777s back then. Cross continental air flight was barely started. Inter-continental jet air travel was barely started. It was expensive and required many more stops than similar travel by today’s standards.

_____________________________________________________

I find the theories of Kenyan birth and the concept of Mal-Val both far more complex than a sloppy unplanned, undesired pregnancy, faux marriage and related faux divorce with the purpose of cleaning up messy - very messy - personal situations.

I have just tried to fill in gaps. I am not sure if many of these have been filled the last week with this discussion. Maybe some material, significant, verifiable evidence will emerge to help with that. Maybe not.

Referencing advanced mathematical concepts - with only a few data points many different and disparate equations can fit the curve. Such seems to be the case here.

I think I am done for now. Peace and merry Christmas.

[bluecat6]

“I do not think the entire Indonesian Citizenship argument here is particularly relevant—even if these events affect his US status, if he is a citizen now and was born in the US, he is still eligible. “

So ‘born in the borders of the US equals eligible for POTUS’ regardless of events after a single event.

Many subscribe that. And it appears to provide comfort to those who want to ignore the potential issue.

But is it accurate?

The debate of the definition of ‘natural born Citizen’, the discussions of jus soli and jus sanguinis, the difference between natural born Citizen and natural born subject, etc. etc. It can make anyone’s head hurt thinking about it.

But ignoring all that it seems clear that any point in time a person can be considered a natural born Citizen OR a naturalized citizen. Both are citizens and have full rights. One is eligble, one is not.

Without a doubt article II prohibits NATURALIZED citizens from being eligible. Or at least that seems to be a logical path of understanding.

If someone is formally naturalized via a formal naturalization process it should be clear they are not eligble. Hence why Arnold is not eligible. He IS a naturalized citizen.

If Sven is correct or close to correct then you have naturalized citizen as POTUS. It would seem relevant. May a court or SCOTUS would rule to agree with the premise stated above. Who knows at this point.

But if a someone, ANYONE, was shown to be naturalized and then rose to POTUS it would cause rethinking the entire history of Article II, Section 1, its meaning and its application in the future. And because of that this the facts for the current situation should be understood.

[Candor7]

Fred, the fact is that your research has an historical context based on the way things happen, as reflected in documentation. The other side of the debate does not have that, just a series of facts with out a consistent context. Their contexts keep[ changing to fit outrageous leaps of logic without context.

Thats why Seizethecarps conclusions are not correct.

No one knows really who Obama’s mother is. We only know who she was not. And we certainly have no evidence that Obama was related in anyway to Malcolm X , other than a shared ideology of black nationalism and socialism ( fascism).

If we could see Obamas and Michelles client lists when they were practicing attorneys, that would be useful, because we would have real people to interview.All that is also sealed
just to keep anyone from proving the truth that the Oval Office is occupied by a usurper of the Constitution.Obamas conduct has proven that anyway, the only question is now how we rid ourselves of him.

[Seizethecarp]

“Fred, the fact is that your research has an historical context based on the way things happen, as reflected in documentation.”

link please to a single verifiable document (FOIA verifiable, for example) that Fred Nerks’ Mal-Val narrative is based on either refuting Stanley Ann as Barry’s mom or supporting a Filipina alternate wife in Seattle named Anna S. Obama or providing legally substantive confirmation that Valerie Sarruf is Barry’s mom and Malcolm X is his dad.

Verifiable circumstantial documentary proof establishes to a legal certainty that Stanley Ann is Barry’s mom. These documents are cross-corroborating in multiple instances to form a consistent narrative.

The so-called evidence that Stanley Ann is not Barry’s mom not only isn’t corroborated anywhere but doesn’t exist.

Feel free to prove me wrong.

Fred Nerks claims that Stanley Ann never completed HS in WA and never set foot in HI until she arrived to be Barry’s nanny and secret adoptive mother circa 1964 so he claims she never met BHO Sr.

Fred Nerks has declared all evidence in support of the following to be forged:

SAD graduated HS in WA
SAD went to HI in mid 1960
SAD was in Russian class at U of HI in fall 1960
SAD was reported made “hapa” by BHO by U of HI officials
SAD and BHO were married of Feb 2, 1961 reported by U of HI officials to INS confirmed in HI vital index and HI 1964 divorce
SAD and BHO were discussing putting baby up for adoption per INS docs
SAD intended to attend college in WA in fall of 1961 per INS docs
BHO named Ann S. Dunham as wife in August 1961 per Ins DOCs
SAD’s numerous friends say she arrived in WA in late Aug 1961
SAD confirmed living at home with parents at address in newspaper birth announcements
SAD’s U of WA transcript shows she attended fall 1961 and spring 1962 and confirm Toutonghi apartment as does Polk with “Anna S. Obama” tiny name variant.
SAD’s U of HI official state archive record picks up U of WA courses
SAD’s U of WA final two transcripts obtained by Corsi (microfilm of final hardcopy and computer printout dated Feb 2, 1009) confirms HS graduation, Russian credit in HI in fall 1960, 1961-62 attendance, U of HI bachelor and master degrees are noted typed in on lower right

Candor7 and All:

Apart from claims of forgery of ALL of the above verifiable (producible in court) archival documents, what POSITIVE documentary evidence or evidence of any kind is there to support:

1. Anna S. Obama being a Filipina wife of BHO who took her baby (the future Roman Obama currently of Ghana) to Seattle in January 1961 to be babysat by Mary Toutonghi at that time and be person recorded by Polk at the same address on Stanley Ann’s transcript a year later.

2. Roman Obama was born the son of BHO and Filipina wife Anna S. and take to Seattle, then spirited to Kenya by BHO to be raised there in Nairobi by him and Ruth Baker and appearing as the “dark boy” (actually verifiable to be Mark Ndesandjo) in the picture of Mark and David Obama.

3. Any verifiable evidence or witness testimony fro anyone that David Obama didn’t exist.

The list goes on...

[Seizethecarp]

“Was it a legitimate marriage in February, with a legitimate marriage license that was properly registered in Maui in 1961? If so that collaborative evidence has not emerged.”

The Feb 2, 1961 marriage is corroborated in contemporaneous court records (divorce) vital records (index) and INS docs (FOIA report). There was suspicion recorded that the INS viewed the actual performed HI marriage to be either an immigration sham or bigamous or both.

There is no evidence or statutory path for a divorce court to retroactively cause a vital record of a marriage to be created. I regard this as a near legal impossibility. IANAL.

While the Kenyan birth narrative is complicated, it is not implausible. FReepers have done extensive research to show that jet airline schedules were in place in mid-1961 to Kenya. Numerous Kenyans are on the record saying Barry was born there. Corsi has published claimed secret Kenyan docs showing that an investigation of CPMG records shows Barry’s birth date time-frame missing.

If the birth was uncomplicated, a mother could travel with a newborn and if the most convenient alternative birth location of HI is assumed that a t a minimum, SADO traveled with a month-old newborn from HI to WA thousand of air miles across the ocean from HI, just as Kenya would be.

[Seizethecarp]

“That must have been after Anna Obama moved out. Maybe there’s a Seattle Polk for 1962-1963 that has Stanley Ann Dunham’s name in it.”

“Have you any idea where SAD was until she shows up in early 1962? She left Seattle in August 1961, according to Susan Blake, and Susan never saw her again.”

All:

Do you see how non-existent (delusional?) Fred Nerks’ claims to an alternate Filipina Anna Obama are?

There is no support for her existence anywhere, yet FN suggests that maybe she moved out of Toutonghi’s apartment just before SADO moved in, yet elsewhere FN has repeatedly claimed that SADO never was in HI or WA in this timeframe, never knew BHO and never had possession of baby Barry until 1964 or so (at the time of the zoo photo).

The cross-corroborating U of HI and U of WA transcripts (they both show each others credits and SAD’s HS graduation) show SADO taking “extension” courses at U of WA in the fall of 1961 and regular U of WA courses in the spring of 1962.

[MHGinTN]

Was every child born in Canada in 1961 a Canadian citizen?... Even if born to a female who was a citizen of a different country and returned to that country after the birth of the child?

The essence of the lesson is that for an affirmative action fraud, who has media complicity and an oath breaking federal government of cowards, the Constitution has been abandoned and is no longer the origin of the 'the rule of law'. The 'law' is what the treasonous elected representatives and appointed black robed oligarchs say it is. America is no longer a Constitutional Republic. That's the essence of the Barry Soetoro usurpation of We The People.

[spacejunkie2001]

can you sum up what David is saying?

thx.

[null and void]

can you sum up what David is saying?

The records are falsified.