Posted on 11/06/2012 8:42:40 AM PST by Seizethecarp
To find out more about Obama’s time in Indonesia, TheBlaze tracked down Father Bart Janssen. He’s the elderly founder of Santo Fransiskus Assisis who we found in a monastery in Den Bosch, The Netherlands. We asked him, through a Dutch translator, what he remembers of the young Barack Obama.
Janssen doesn’t remember who registered Obama, but he recalls that Obama’s mother didn’t speak Indonesian at the time, so he thinks that both the stepfather and the mother would have been there together to register their son. He also doesn’t think the details in Obama’s registration document should be considered official declarations of his faith or citizenship because it wasn’t a government form and people played loose with such facts at the time. For example, it was typical to register as Indonesian and Islamic just because you were living there, so the religion indicated may just be what his father put down because it was the normal thing to do.
An exit after one term from the White House could act as a catalyst for more information more quickly. An Obama win, on the other hand, would likely keep any information – at least from the president himself — sealed for at least four more years.
Voters on Tuesday, then, may be deciding more than just who the next president is – they could help decide how much more we know about the one we have now.
(Excerpt) Read more at theblaze.com ...
...and I don’t see why you don’t keep your mouth shut, and let me get on with it, I was posting information relative to the thread after you pinged me - about the travels of zero and Stanley Ann Dunham to and from Indonesia when you chimed in with your usual ‘get off my thread and post somewhere else’ BS.
Get ready for some surprises about that entire Indonesia fairy tale. Next, I’m going to show why I think they needed to create that composite of the little family on the couch.
We’re going to carry on from the ‘instant baby’ segment...unless your aim is to get the thread pulled just as it gets interesting.
You’re right of course, now that it’s been established the name appeared in the 1961-62 Polk, the earliest her name could have been included - going by the ‘she started at the U of WA in September’ - was in the last three months of 1961. As the directory is a useful marketing tool, under those circumstances, the book couldn’t have come out before end of the year...and the information it contained would have been already outdated by one year.
I doubt if the people who relied upon the directory would have found that very useful...
But it’s evident isn’t it, that Anna Obama was in Seattle early enough to be included in the directory and furthermore, early enough to be able to enroll at the university.
The discovery of Anna 0bama in Seattle really threw a monkey wrench in their works.
Meanwhile, Obama's mother, whose parents Madelyn and Stanley Dunham had moved here from Kansas a decade earlier, left Mercer Island in 1960. But she returned to live in Seattle around 1962, after Barack was born in August 1961, leaving her husband, Kenya-born Barack Sr., and his newborn namesake in Hawaii. She lived on Capitol Hill and enrolled at the University of Washington.
Then Mary's name pops up in an interview in Alaska before she knew anything about her babysitting adventure:
September 25, 2008 · Campaign propaganda disappears from central peninsula yards, roadsides
Then Charlette LeFevre gets into the act, she has someone called 'LIEF' ask a question on December 14on the SEATTLE CHAT website:
Ann Dunham's apartment Leif 14 Dec 2008, 07:54
Hi, does anyone happen to know where the apartment is/was where B. Obama's mother lived on Capitol Hill? I'm really interested in Seattle history and have been striking out on the exact address. Apparently, before the C. Hill apt. she lived at a "Laurelhurst dormitory" near UW, but I don't know exactly where that is either, or if it still exists.
Reply | Options Unfold Ann Dunham's apartment by Leif, 14 Dec 2008, 07:54 Fold Re: Ann Dunham's apartment Charlette 2 Jan 2009, 17:09
Hi Leif,
Interesting inquiry. If Stanley Ann Dunham was living on Capitol Hill that means our next President Barack Obama also lived on Capitol Hill as an infant. (Interesting he is going from Capitol Hill to Capitol Hill). If the time period was from around March 1962 to at least September 1962 then Barack Obama would have been around 7 months old.
There is a possiblity if Ann signed on with UW as a student that UW Housing may have records.
Reply | Options Unfold Re: Ann Dunham's apartment by Charlette, 2 Jan 2009, 17:09 Fold Re: Ann Dunham's apartment
Charlette 7 Jan 2009, 18:16 Confirmed Barack Obama lived here on Capitol Hill. Document and photos to be posted soon.
Reply | Options Unfold Re: Ann Dunham's apartment by Charlette, 7 Jan 2009, 18:16 Fold Re: Ann Dunham's apartment Charlette 10 Jan 2009, 19:06
Here you go,
Capitol Hill Times has now posted the article and photos. Barack Obama: From Capitol Hill to Capitol Hill
Reply | Options Unfold Re: Ann Dunham's apartment by Charlette, 10 Jan 2009, 19:06 Fold Re: Ann Dunham's apartment
Charlette 13 Jan 2009, 19:34 To be exact the plot of land was lot 9. It was mentioned by a former resident it was the second house in from the Mercer Republican corner.
Last edited on 28 Jan 2009, 12:50 by Charlette + Show more Reply | Options Unfold Re: Ann Dunham's apartment by Charlette, 13 Jan 2009, 19:34 Fold Re: Ann Dunham's apartment Charlette 31 Jan 2009, 19:42
Babysitter of Barack was Mary Toutonghi who now lives in Alaska. She lived right below Ann and Barack. The name Toutonghi is listed in the city directory as residents of 516 13th Ave E, an address which is also confirmed by the Univ. of WA as the residence given by Ann Dunham Obama when she registered.
-----------------------------------------
Althought the article Charlette refers to in the above communication is now no longer accessible, here's how it starts on her Seattle Museum of the Mysteries website:
From Capitol Hill to Capitol Hill Confirmation that Barack Obama lived on Capitol Hill - Seattle by Charlette LeFevre 1/6/09
Very little has been written about President Barack Obama¹s mother Stanley Ann Dunham¹s time here in Seattle. Brief articles and even briefer accounts from schoolmates make the person who was the ³most influential² person in Barack¹s life all the more intriguing. A single mother who enrolled in the University of Washington in 1961 and 1962 extension program she likely came across many social prejudices in the predominantly all white campus. Perhaps Anna Obama felt more at ease in the diverse neighborhood of Capitol Hill which housed many students from the neighboring colleges. Recently located was a listing for Stanley Ann Obama in the 1961 Polk directory at the Seattle Public Library : "Obama Anna Mrs studt h516 13th av E apt. 2"
I think it's obvious from all of that, Rick Anderson was the first to mention that there was a woman living in Seattle who he thought was Stanley Ann Dunham, but he doesn't supply an address, and doesn't say how he came across the information. LIEF appears to bring up the question, because he would not have been able to find her under the name in the Rick Anderson article. But Charlette pulls the strings together, she locates the ANNA OBAMA entry, jumps to the conclusion she's found where the POTUS was living as a baby, now she can include that address in her Walking Tours of Seattle...
Mary wouldn't have been hard to find, she's recently been interviewed in Alaska, and the reverse directory shows the name - so she telephones Mary and Mary says, yes, well fancy that, I did baby-sit for Anna when my daughter who was born in July 1959 was 18 months old...and there you go...all you need to do is add one and one and come out with five or six or seven, LOL.
I can imagine the screaming; Eeek! They found ANNA!
I think I remember seeing this before. (and most/much of the other things only perhaps not all at once.) I have two questions.
1. Where did info in the initial entry in the Oct.22 2008 newspaper article come from?
2. How did anyone get the idea that the baby was left in HI? Or was that part accurate?
Amazing how every teensy bit of info always leads to MORE questions...
The 'investigative' reporter Rick Anderson, didn't explain. It was a stupid stupid article:
2. How did anyone get the idea that the baby was left in HI? Or was that part accurate?
Impossible to make the pieces fit as usual, the only thing I can think of is that in 1962 (as he writes)the child of Anna for whom Mary baby-sat in January 1961 may have gone and she was living on her own already, one of the 'classmates' who maintained they visited 'Stanley Ann Dunham' at the Seattle address, commented that she wasn't attending classes, she had been to Boston looking for the kenyan and came back 'melancholy' and there was NO CHILD THERE...
The only problem with that little obot story is that it had the journey to Boston taking place at a time in 1962, before the kenyan had left Hawaii.
You might end up being sorry you asked, I checked the research notes and found this:
About Charlette and the sequence of events:
Here’s the link to the Oct. 2008 article by Anderson:
http://www.seattleweekly.com/2008-10-22/news/may-the-best-mom-win/
It was preceded by this in April 2008:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2004334057_obama08m.html
“By 1962, Dunham had returned to Seattle as a single mother, enrolling in the UW for spring quarter and living in an apartment on Capitol Hill. But friends said she got overwhelmed and returned to her family in Hawaii, and formally divorced Obama Sr. in 1964.”
Jonathan Martin is a relatively mainstream journalist. He doesn’t say how he knows SAD lived on Capitol Hill. Says she was a single mother; no mention of the kid being with her. But this report was 6 months before Anderson’s.
It’s long, but I’ll let AMERICAN THINKER take up the story, they do a much better job of showing the contradictions than I could ever hope to show:
excerpt:
Ann’s Friends in Seattle
The two people who have supplied the most information about Ann Dunham are her two Mercer Island high school friends: Susan Botkin Blake and Maxine Box. The easiest way to understand their prevarications is to analyze the story they tell of Ann’s “visit” to Seattle. There are at least three versions:
Version I
In a March 27, 2007 video interview Blake said:
She came to visit briefly one afternoon in 1961 when Barry was just a few weeks old. We were sitting at my mom’s house one late August afternoon and she had just finished nursing her baby. She was patting him and she went ‘Oh, he pooped.’ She looked at me ‘cause I had two little baby brothers and she handed him to me and said here Botkin, you know how to do this so she handed him out so I changed Barry’s diaper and showed her how to do it, said get used to it, they do this a lot these new babies do[.]
Box last saw her friend in 1961, when she visited Seattle on her way from Honolulu to Massachusetts, where her then-husband was attending Harvard.
Author Michael Patrick Leahy interviewed both women for an article in August 2008:
On at least one occasion, very shortly after the birth of Barack Obama Junior, friends of Stanley Ann Dunham recall her visiting them in Seattle with her new born baby, Barack Obama Junior.
Blake recalls that Dunham, who was calling herself Ann Obama at the time, visited her at her house in Mercer Island during the last week of August 1961.
She left Honolulu just as soon as she had clearance from her doctor to travel with her new baby. He was just 3 weeks old....She was very excited about her new life, and her husband. She was nuts about him, crazy in love. I was under the impression that he had left Honolulu before Barack’s birth; that he had gone to Harvard already for his studies, and that Ann was on her way to join him there.
As with Blake, this visit would be the last time that Box ever saw her high school friend.
Blake’s and Box’s recollections agree with the fable in Dreams; Ann and Obama are madly in love, he is at Harvard, and a distressed wife and child are on their way to be with him. These recollections, however, are simply impossible. In reality, Ann Dunham wasn’t “visiting”; she was living in Seattle and attending school at the University of Washington. Ann couldn’t have been on her way to Harvard because no one, including Barack Obama, Sr., knew anything about Harvard until May of 1962. Yet Blake anchors the date of the visit to late August 1961 by referring to a young baby, “pink and very new,” “3 weeks old”; “I showed her how to do it [change diapers].” If we accept the president’s date of birth as August 4, 1961, then it is impossible for Blake not to be talking about 1961. Finally, how can Blake describe Ann as being “nuts about him, crazy in love,” when Ann had just left Obama Sr. back in Hawaii for good? The marriage (if indeed there was a marriage) didn’t fall apart “a few years later,” as Box stated; it had already fallen apart, as evidenced by Ann and baby moving to Seattle.
Version II
According to David Maraniss in an August 2008 Washington Post article, August 1961 was not the last time Blake and Box saw their friend Ann, as was stated in version I. In March of 2008, Washington Post reporter Michael Dobbs discovered that Obama Sr. didn’t learn he was accepted to Harvard until May of 1962. Could this be why Maraniss pins Ann’s “visit” to Seattle in late summer 1962?
Her husband finished his degree, graduating in June 1962 ... Then, before the month was out, he [Obama Sr.] took off, leaving behind his still-teenage wife and namesake child ... Did Ann try to follow him to Cambridge? Her friends from Mercer Island were left with that impression. Susan Botkin [Blake], Maxine Box and John Hunt all remember Ann showing up in Seattle late that summer with little Barry, as her son was called.
“She was on her way from her mother’s house to Boston to be with her husband,” Botkin [Blake] recalled. “[She said] he had transferred to grad school and she was going to join him ... but I remember that afternoon, sitting in my mother’s living room, drinking iced tea and eating sugar cookies. She had her baby and was talking about her husband, and what life held in store for her. She seemed so confident and self-assured and relaxed. She was leaving the next day to fly on to Boston.”
This second version of Ann’s “visit” is as impossible as the first. In late August 1962, Ann was not coming from her mother’s house in Hawaii; she was residing in Seattle. She had been in Seattle for at least a year and certainly had no intentions of “leaving the next day” to see her husband in Boston. Though this second version gets rid of the problem of when Obama Sr. learned of Harvard and when he went there, it is total hogwash.
Version III
Four years after his 2008 article, Maraniss wrote his book, Barack Obama: The Story. The incontrovertible fact that Ann was in Seattle by August of 1961 forced him to change the date of the “visit” back to 1961 while keeping many of the details the same:
Barry was not yet a month old when they left Honolulu in late August 1961 ... And she [Ann] made her way over to Susan Botkin’s mother’s house with the baby and spent an afternoon there ... they sat in the living room, drinking iced tea and eating sugar cookies, as Ann cradled baby Barry ... She looked neither frightened nor intimidated, but rather “so confident and self-assured and relaxed. She nursed him and was burping him, and oh, he pooped, and she handed him to me — ‘Here, Botke.’”
Careful historian Maraniss might more accurately be described as an “enabling dissembler.” By looking at the three versions of the “visit,” it is clear that as conflicting facts have been discovered, recollections have been conveniently modified to fit them. From the initial version of a young woman, “crazy in love,” stopping off in Seattle in 1961 on her way to see her beloved in Boston, who by the way wouldn’t be in Boston for another year, we find out that the “visit” really happened a year later in August 1962 — and when it becomes clear that Ann moved to Seattle and was never on her way to see her husband in Boston, we wind up with a totally innocuous story reset to 1961 of two friends visiting one afternoon for an amiable chat.
It is clear that people are lying. It is clear they are lying to protect a fraudulent story. It is clear that the official Obama nativity story is bunkum. Those who have orchestrated this cover-up should be ashamed of themselves for trying to fool us.
We should be ashamed of ourselves if we allow them to do it.
Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/10/we_have_been_duped_the_story.html#ixzz2FUXy3SQA
A careful reading will show that MOST of the above incidents ARE possible if Stanley Ann Dunham and zero are NOT the same woman and child as are Ann/Anna Obama.
Happy Festivus! Is it time for the “Airing of Grievances” already?
Obama is a usurper. If you want confirmation, then you’ll have to ask his permission to view his naturalization file at the National Archives.
An honest, competent investigator never overstates the nature or legal implications of claimed evidence.
You are doing exactly what Barry has been doing all of these years. You claim, without a hint of ironic self-reflection, that the proof of your assertion “is in the files” but is currently inaccessible. Just like the man you call a usurper.
You presume that at the end of the day SCOTUS would rule Barry ineligible if he was “naturalized” after supposedly losing his US citizenship through adoption. You are obviously not a lawyer and obviously don’t know what you are talking about.
IMO, Barry is a suspected usurper. His birth place is unknown. His nationality at birth is unknown. His Indonesian and Kenyan possible dual citizenship status and history is unknown. His father is unknown. His mother has been confirmed to be Stanley Ann Dunham to a legal certainty, IMO from my assessment as a forensic fraud analyst. Given all of this your assertions as to Barry’s eligibility are premature, IMO.
“alleged Filipinos the mother”
“then was identity-swapped with Barry in HI in 1964. Barry, son of Malcolm X and Valerie Sarruf, assumed the BHO II identity”
I am not trying ‘advance’ this theory at all. I just ask - who are Filipino heritage women in the dock photo - and maybe the Nachmanoff floor photo. The woman only identified as Anne in the Nachmanoff photo MAY be one of the 2 women in the dock photo. It is hard to tell definitely one way or the other.
Coupled the Filipino women in the dock photo and the McKeon memo of the USC wife ‘who is in the Philipines’. So I certainly agree. McKeon made no claim of Filipino or Filipino-heritage wife. And he was relying on input from Obama or some other source - as such its actual accuracy is not confirmed. It is basically hearsay.
But the pictures and reference and apparent linkage to the Philippines have never been explained. Maybe they can not after so much time.
As the multiple Ann(x)s in 1961 or so.
There is:
Ann Dunham
Stanley Ann Dunham
‘Anne (USA)’ (Nachmanoffs)
Anna (Seattle)
If the references to Anne and Anna where one or the other I would say that is strong linkage. But they are not. So the linkage is more tenuous.
Is Anna of Seattle really Stanley Ann? Maybe. If you were a single mother with a mixed-race child in 1961/1962 you probably have enough problems without using a mans name as your first name. But why not Ann instead of Anna. Anna is not used her anywhere else. So it somewhat stands out as an anomaly.
KISS is always good. Based on KISS I would say this scenario is possible. Note - possible, not likely, not probably. Just possible.
Obama knocks up SAD in the November 1960 timeframe. Parents ship her off to family in Washington. No wedding, not happy little family. She has baby in Washington - maybe (just maybe) Canada leveraging Obama’s nationality connection to that country. He was after all British at this time since Kenya was not yet independent.
She stays in Washington. She only returns after the trouble maker - Obama Senior - leaves the island. Then in 1964 she files for divorce to give her and the baby a proper married name. Better to be divorced with a child than to have never been married based on values at the time - right?
This ‘legitimizes’ the baby’s name and give her a ‘legitimate’ past with a dirty rotten husband who abandoned her and the baby. I think the divorce claimed mis-treatment. How can you mis-treat if you are not in any contact? So the divorce was probably a sham to create a sham marriage and ‘clean up’ the past.
Obama senior either agrees to it or does not care. But when push comes to shove later in 1964 he tries to leverage the situation to stay in the US.
The reason I think that SAD would have already been on the mainland IF the birth really did happen August 4 1961 is that the average maternity stay in 1961 was 8 days. So she would not have left the hospital until the 12th. Then she is in Seattle by end of the month? Or even the 19th? Unlikely. How and when SAD goes to Seattle is another vacuum.
So that is it. The basic story as it might fit datapoints. Roman Obama - not sure, seems much, much more complex. And not trying to ‘advance’ that.
But still many vacuums that would be better filled.
Thanks for all the digging! I will read this all carefully. The lies/misrepresentations/off the cuff made up crap and a few facts here and there are amazingly difficult to sort out.
One thing for the idiots/knaves who call people “birthers” to consider - If the story in “Dreams” is true - how come there is no consistent or easy to understand evidence of his life?
It’s obvious to anyone who isn’t wedded to the myth (or one of the myths...) to see that his entire life story is a fabrication, and any small atolls of truth are surrounded by a sea of lies.
If SAD were the mother and BHO the father, and the DOB and place were accurate, there would have been no need for a forgery.
Leaving aside the adoption by Soetoro and subsequent locking up of the original B.C. as proposed by Sven Magnussen). And I could be wrong, but even if the original B.C. if it listed SAD and BHO as parents, perhaps could be obtained by the guy in the WH even if it were not “legal” since the DoH is his plaything.
So I see no need for a clumsy forgery in any case, if the purported parents were the real ones.
This is leaving aside the other aberrations that lead the thoughtful followers of this to conclude that neither purported parent is factually a parent.
Courtesy ping to S.M.
We are mostly in agreement.
IMO there is a verifiable legal certainty that Stanley Ann was living in Seattle attending U of WA. because it is contemporaneously corroborated by MULTIPLE verifiable state and federal records at INS, HI and WA. One unusual spelling of Ann as Anna in the Seattle Polk that is totally uncorroborated will mean nothing in any forensic investigation or federal court. The spelling could be a simple typo by the Polk clerk or an alternate name temporarily chosen by a 19-year-old who at that age frequently experiment with different names.
If you check, every “Filipina” reference is uncorroborated contemporaneously AND highly speculative in every way. The McKeon memo from Baltimore INS in 1964 says “separated” wife IN the Philippines, not Filipina, as previously discussed and is years removed in time and geography from the insemination event in 1960. Being uncorroborated, the McKeon reference could easily have been misdirection by Sr. or misremembered by McKeon between his interview and his write-up of the mamo.
The ONLY separated wife in 1964 in the US in INS records (prior to divorce finalization) was Stanley Ann Dunham Obama. If there was another one, such as an alternate Anna Obama with a half-Filipino baby, wouldn’t McKeon have noted that in some way?
The Nachmanoff woman was named as Japanese by the Cambodian classmate, IIRC and the women on the dock (conclusively ID’d as a departure) may LOOK Filipina to some but could just as easily be Japanese or HI mixed race to my eye, but in 1962 when Sr. would have departed, what can be concluded from two alleged Filipina women standing next to notorious skirt-chaser BHO Sr.? That he was married to one of them who had a 100% African-looking baby who grew up to be Roman Obama three years earlier...(not that you are still saying this)?
Unless of course it fits your own theories, then it's all systems go. And you are flexible, you can change your mind at will without explanation.
His birth place is unknown.
check
His nationality at birth is unknown.
as a direct consequence
His Indonesian and Kenyan possible dual citizenship status and history is unknown.
that's why I continue to refer to him as zero - the name on the variety of documentation belongs to the son of the kenyan student.
His father is unknown.
I see you have given up on the Frank Marshall Davis ravished the teenage daughter of a friend - because she was easy, posed for naked photographs - and had the hots for coloured men 35 years older? Care to tell us what happened that changed your mind?
His mother has been confirmed to be Stanley Ann Dunham to a legal certainty, IMO from my assessment as a forensic fraud analyst
No she hasn't. All we have been shown by the mountain of contratictory material is that SAD may have turned up with a very young child that she showed to Susan Blake and that Mary baby-sat for Anna Obama in January 1961. Mary told the simple truth at first interview and those whom the truth didn't suit, have been trying to change what she said ever since.
As for your assessment as a foresnic fraud analyst that's not worth a hill of beans.
You're looking at zero on the left right here, and the child of Ann/Anna Obama on the right. Let me know when it dawns on you there were two women and two children, and that's why you can't know where zero came from, because neither SAD nor Anna Obama was the mother of zero.
Lovely pictures of BHO II, David Obama and Mark Obama Ndesand, all with the same father, BHO Sr. as overwhelmingly corroborated by all contemporaneous evidence.
Yet Fred Nerks would have you believe his Mal-Val narrative account that Mark is actually Roman Obama of Ghana but at birth was also named BHO (”the real BHO” according to Fred Nerks), the mixed race African-Filipino son of BHO Sr. and a non-existent alleged Filipina wife named Anna Obama to gave birth in late 1959 presumably in HI but took the baby to Seattle where she appeared in Polk and her baby was babysat by Mary Toutonghi in January 1960.
Does Mark look the slightest bit Filipino? Does Roman Obama of Ghana look the slightest bit Filipino? Not to me.
Fred Nerks is going to reveal soon how the cut-and-paste Soetoro family pictures tie in to the alleged Lebanese mom of Barry, Valerie Sarruf, or to Mary Toutonghi...or something like that.
Something to look forward to!
Woman in front is Filipino heritage. Specific facial features are clear to say that. Definitely not Japanese heritage.
One in back looks she may be the Nachmanoffs picture. Hair is similar. Harder to say ‘definitely’. I still lean toward Filipino on Dock and Nachmanoff picture is inconclusive. Bad angle and low quality.
Dock photo seems mechanically suspect (i.e. possible photoshop). I know that if is authentic it is departure not arrival. Seems like a lot of leis on Senior. Maybe that is appropriate given his nature!
I am not convinced that Senior is father at all. And still acknowledge that the solid, take it to the bank and bet your house on it evidence is still not there.
The events and documents of 1964 would have mutually beneficial effects. Divorce/faux marriage servers mother and child. Senior, once he is aware of the divorce action or if he pre-blessed it he gets to use USC wife and child (note that he does indicate divorce is final though it is as his April 1964 INS form) as a reason to stay in US.
If the FOIA are authentic he does reference SAD in 1961 - but not the child. Again, IF this is authentic then he is probably aware she is knocked up but does not know he is father. He fills out the form in September - a month after the supposed birth. He may be making up the status of ‘wife’ (vs. impregnated liason) to stay in the US - something he clearly wanted to do.
I really question any February 1961 real marriage at all. He was playboy, with a wife in Kenya. Love and family were not in the agenda. But having a ‘USC’ wife (and in 1964 - a USC child) give him hope of not getting deported.
Real or stand in - he had material gain of claiming USC wife and later child.
Wife and child got material gain from a formal divorce in 1964 - cleaning up stigma background with a more legitimate.
I would say that he still is.
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