Posted on 03/18/2010 12:01:27 PM PDT by anotherview
Would Muslims surrender Mecca? Should Catholics give up the Vatican? These may seem like ridiculous questions. The answer to both by any sane person would be "of course not." Why on earth would the answer to "Would Jews ever surrender Jerusalem?" be any different? The answer is simple. It shouldn't.
With the exception of a seven year period in the sixth century when the Persians restored Jewish sovereignty, the Jewish people were denied a homeland from 70 C.E. until 1948. During that time the Jewish people suffered pogroms, expulsions, mass murder, persecution, and assorted other forms of denial of basic human rights. Throughout that time the Jewish people prayed for one thing consistently: "Next year in Jerusalem." It's part of the Passover seder, the ceremonial feast, which the world's Jewish population will celebrate in two weeks time.
Hatikvah, the Israeli national anthem, is a Zionist prayer in song, a prayer for a Jewish home in the land of Zion and Jerusalem. Jerusalem is stressed and is in the refrain, the only part of the anthem which is repeated. Here is a translation of the lyrics:
As long as in the heart, within,These words, taken from a poem and set to music in 1888, are the essence of Zionism. More, they are the essence of Jewish national and cultural identity.
A Jewish soul still yearns,
And onward, towards the ends of the east,
An eye still gazes toward Zion;
Our hope is not yet lost,
The hope of two thousand years,
To be a free people in our land,
The land of Zion and Jerusalem.
In recent days some have said that Prime Minister Netanyahu, and indeed the nation of Israel as a whole, will eventually have to make a choice between concessions which amount to surrendering sovereignty over much of Jerusalem or the friendship between Israel and the United States. Actually, that is no choice at all. Jews simply will not surrender sovereignty over Jerusalem. Those, particularly in the United States, who argue that we should include Jews who have somehow become divorced from their traditions, culture, their very identity as Jews. If we have to say goodbye to those people and say goodbye to support from the White House then that is what we will do.
Notice that I have made this argument without even once referring to Jewish and Christian religious beliefs. Of course it is religion which makes Jerusalem holy to Jews, just as Mecca is holy to Muslims and the Vatican is holy to Catholics. These beliefs, which the majority of Americans happen to share, are also being challenged by the White House. That has never been a recipe for much political support.
During Israel's 1948-49 War of Independence my father fought to lift the siege of Jerusalem. To him a Jewish state and the city of Jerusalem was worth fighting for. I can't say my views are any different. Israel survived against what seemed like impossible odds without any American help then. If need be it will do so again.
Anyone who insists that Israel should offer sovereignty as a concession prior to any negotiations for peace, with nothing in return, is asking Israel to surrender. What is the point of a Jewish state if not to maintain Jewish identity and hold on to what is precious to the Jewish people? Anyone who demands such a thing is no friend of Israel or the Jewish people, even if they can claim to be Jewish by birth. Oh, and yes, that includes the Obama Administration and anyone within the administration who insists that Israel not build in Ramat Shlomo or anywhere else in our holy city and capital.
So, then Jews did NOT start a war and steal land from Palestinians? Is that the latest propganda?
If you’d like to be on or off, please FR mail me.
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Would Muslims surrender Mecca? Should Catholics give up the Vatican? These may seem like ridiculous questions
Forget Mecca Caitlyn. Rome, including the Vatican, and much of southern Italy, as well as southern France and Spain are part of the Ummah, the proper question is the timing of their return. Probably parts of Paris, London too, along with all of Dearborn.
This article is only three days old.
Hamas Sermon in Gaza on Al-Aqsa TV: Rome Will Be Conquered by Islam
And remember when Columbus reached the new world, he was greeted by Muslims. The first European to traverse the continental US east to west was a Muslim (this may be partially true). The world belongs to Islam, it's not a question of if the infidel will "give up", rather when.
Thanks, note the link in 42
oops sorry, that wasn’t for you.
Amen!
Though I am a Christian of Irish and Native-American Descent I wholeheartedly agree with every word! One does not have to be Jewish to recognize that Jerusalem is the very heart and soul of Jewish Religion, Culture, and history.
Not to mention that The Jewish Bible mentions Jerusalem thousands of times, while the Koran and Hadiths bare give it a passing glance if at all.
19th Century photos of the Dome of the Rock show it neglected, in a state of disrepair, and overgrown with weeds.
The current claim of Jerusalem being the “Third Holiest City in Islam” is about 60 years old...about the same age as the State of ISRAEL!
Best comment. The force is strong with you Jewbacca.
How impolite and vicious of you.
Putting different letters before or after the number of years since the birth of Christ, and pretending it doesn't signify the time before and after the birth of Christ is pretty silly in my view.
My sworn enemies, Communists and Fascists use CE and BCE as a tool of their trade. It's one of the things I use as a marker to identify them. You may not be my enemy, but you'll take friendly fire for wearing the mark of evil.
Nothing I said was impolite or vicious if you know history.
The Julian Calendar was an invention of pagan Rome, specifically, by Julius Ceasar.
It had zero to do with the person whom Christian deem the Messiah. Indeed, it predated Yeshua by 50 years or so.
Read the last sentence again.
The Gregorian Calendar (the one that is secularly used) was grafted onto to this pagan branch, retaining the names of pagan “gods” and Roman ceasars who would be “gods” as the months.
A perfectly good calendar has existed since G-d named the years and months on Mt. Sinai — the Hebrew Calendar.
Indeed, this actual Biblical calendar remains in use by the Christian Orthodox Church and by any number of governments not founded (however remotely) by pagan Rome.
If you want to celebrate Jupiter (Janis), Mars (March)and the rest of pagan “gods”, have at it.
I tolerate the paganism because the world has decided to use this old pagan calendar (which was a solar calendar) as a compromise, since it has been tinkered with by astronomers long enough to be accurate to make trains, planes, and spaceships fly correctly.
Pretending it has anything other than pagan roots, however, is absurd.
“If I forget thee oh Jerusalem
May my right hand forget it's cunning
If I do not remember thee
let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth
If I do not hold YOU above my chief joy.”
I don't understand why Sicily should not give back the land that it stole from Islam in 1130.
Etc, etc.
What is clear is that you “don't understand”.
Just how far back should be go to enforce the inane ‘rule’ you are attempting to establish that losers don't lose and winners don't win?
What would happen if Mecca had a natural disaster like a 9.0 earthquake?
But when you talk about the number of years since the birth of Jesus Christ, and you pretend that it's it's not the number of Years since the birth of Jesus Christ by placing CE or BCE after it, then you're assisting Communists and Fascists in their quest to destroy the civilization that Christ's followers have built.
Facts are not pretending or frothing.
Because of the accuracy of the star-worshiping Romans, they made a nice solar calendar.
I am happy use the Gregorian Calendar as a secular calendar, but accepting the pagan beliefs inherant in the calendar have long been a source of discontent in Judaism and most of Christianity until the last century or so, until train time tables (and the need for a uniform calendar) have made acceptance of it practical.
I get the feeling that you take a pride in feeling superior to others, and that feeling is stroked when you use phrases like “star worshiping” and “pagan beliefs.” Such things give me no tingle up my leg. Here’s a phrase.... blow it out yer a**! And please, stop voting like women when the time comes.
““star worshiping” and “pagan beliefs”
That’s what the Romans worshipped.
Jupter, Mars, Venus. They made them into “gods.”
It’s really not controversial.
I love the smell of anger in the morning. It smells like.....VICTORY! :-)
I am not angry at you, I find your “logic” to be ill.
That you cannot defend this ‘principle’ you have about “stolen land” speaks volumes as to how ill thought out and unsupportable your position is.
Do you think America should give back the lands it “stole” from Mexico? How is the principle any different?
Your unwillingness to engage in the argument makes it quite apparent that you have nothing constructive to say in your own defense, so you ludicrously declare “victory”.
Laughably inept.
I don’t have to “defend” my opinions to you or anyone else, got it? Principle? Who called it a “principle”? Not I.
However, the fact remains:
Jews started a war in 1948, ( with the help of the good ol’ U.S. of A., I might add ) and stole land from the Palestinians then called it their “country” named “Israel”.
Let’s see YOU defend THAT! Well, I know that you can’t defend fact but let’s see you try to justify it. :-)
Mexico? Who in the world said anything about Mexico? Not I.
Laughabley inept? Name calling? Tsk, tsk tsk.
It’s quite obvious that you have lost control of your emotions. Calm down. It’s just a useless discussion on an internet forum, for goodness’ sake. :-)
You cannot be consistent in the application of your ‘rule’, showing that it is not well thought out or defensible.
My position is based upon the principle that “winners win” and “losers lose”.
According the the idea that land can be “stolen” in war, then why do you think that America should not give back the land it “stole” from Mexico?
If your position is not based upon any deeper principle, then perhaps it is based upon an irrational hatred of Jews.
Better try to control those irrational emotions there champ.
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