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Would Muslims Surrender Mecca? Should Catholics Give Up The Vatican?
Zionism and Aliya (blog) ^ | 18 March 2010 | Caitlyn Martin

Posted on 03/18/2010 12:01:27 PM PDT by anotherview

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To: allmendream

ROFL

I notice that you did not try to defend the fact as I presented it, did you?

No hatred of Jews and I do believe that Arabs are inherently evil and vicious, actually animalistic in thought because they have not advanced in the societal world/society.....remained in the 12th Century somewhere or even further back than that.

I unemotionally look at history and form opinions.

Nothing more.

Drawing parallels between Israel/Mexico is impossible and I do believe that you are well aware of that. You just like to argue indefensible positions, it seems.

With that thought in mind, please defend and/or justify Jews starting a war in 1948 and stealing land from Palestinians then calling it their “country” and naming it “Israel”. Did that happen or did it not happen?


61 posted on 03/19/2010 2:11:33 PM PDT by El Gran Salseron
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To: El Gran Salseron
Did not the USA start a war against Mexico and steal land from Mexicans and call it our country?

Drawing the parallel is not impossible. I just did it. Wow I performed what you called impossible. Maybe the word doesn't mean what you think it means.

Now you tell me why the comparison isn't applicable, if you can.

Obviously you cannot.

The examples are word for word applicable, and only your “its impossible” stands as any sort of “reason” why the comparison isn't apt.

There is no defense needed to the “fact” that Israel won against its opponents and when you win, you win; when you lose you lose.

I understand that as a loser, you might have sympathy for other losers; is that your guiding principle then?

Do you have a principle, or do you just like accusing Israel of theft.

Why would Israel taking land in war be “stealing”, but not the USA talking land in war?

Lacking any guiding principle to your accusation, or any consistency in its application; I can only surmise that your “unemotional” opinion is based on thinking there is SOMETHING different about Israel that makes them taking land in war “stealing” but not anyone else.

What is that something that is different about Israel?

62 posted on 03/19/2010 3:03:20 PM PDT by allmendream (Income is EARNED not distributed. So how could it be re-distributed?)
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To: allmendream
No, the U.S.A. did not start a war with Mexico. I don't know where you get your information.

You are an emotional person. :-)

You keep wanting me to compare Mexico to Israel. I have hesitated to do so but you keep insisting so that I'll have to embarrass you once again.

I can answer you specifically about Texas because that is where I live:

There were Texans living in Texas which was at the time a "territory" under the control of Mexico. Texans, NOT U.S. citizens NOR was Texas a state of the U.S.A. at the time, revolted against a repressive Mexican government to seek their independence from the Mexican government. They won their independence and became an autonomous "territory".

Jews, on the other hand, started a war, not a "revolt" against any repressive government and not for independence from any OTHER government, but to simply land-grab and suddenly call themselves a "country" named "Israel". The land that they grabbed was at the time parts of other countries. Why in the world have both Syria and Egypt tried on several occasions to get their land back? :-)

If you can't see the difference between Texas and Israel then I truly empathize with you.

You're hopeless. You still haven't answered MY question about whether or not Jews started a war and suddenly started calling themselves a "country". Did they or did they not start a war simply to grab land and create a theretofore non-existent "country"? You keep on dodging my question and referring back to your erroreous assumption about Mexico.

I suppose that anyone who holds an opinion that differs from yours is automatically a Jew-hater, huh?

I urge you to read some history books unless you are just too biased to do so. :-)

63 posted on 03/19/2010 6:03:34 PM PDT by El Gran Salseron
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To: El Gran Salseron
So your standard is then ‘who started it’?

Very playground of you.

So your contention is that Israel in 1948 Israel simultaneously invaded five neighboring nations?

No, wait a minute. It was Israel that was simultaneously invaded by five neighboring nations.

And after the “Thornton affair” the USA declared war on Mexico. A war that was never even a contest, and a war which furthered President Polk's aim of securing the Southwest as US territory.

Israelis declared their political independence when the British mandate expired. At that point they were invaded by five neighboring nations. They won the war and their independence.

Texans declared their political independence from Mexico. There was conflict between Mexico and Texas. Texas won the war and their independence. Later they joined the USA, conflict was provoked and the USA declared war against a nation that couldn't even beat Texas. We won the war and much of the Southwest right down to the Rio Grand.

You win wars, you win your Independence.

But for some reason it is “stealing” when Israel does it. Why is that?

64 posted on 03/19/2010 6:53:12 PM PDT by allmendream (Income is EARNED not distributed. So how could it be re-distributed?)
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To: Rennes Templar
Don’t tell me the Jews side with the humanists who created that C.E. bunk.

Considering that Jews don't believe in Jesus, yes, of course we use C.E.

I am amazed how many Christians simply don't understand how different Judaism is from Christianity. I am equally unsurprised when those differences are pointed out how many Christians will turn on Jews, just as they have done for centuries.

Yeah, I know, this is a Christian site. The truth hurts sometimes. I also believe that most American Christians are true friends of Israel.

65 posted on 03/20/2010 7:32:04 AM PDT by anotherview ("Ignorance is the choice not to know." -Klaus Schulze)
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To: Jewbacca
“'..the Jewish people were denied a homeland from 70 A.D. until 1948'”

“the Jewish people were denied a homeland from 3830 until the 5th of Iyyar, 5708”

Fixed it.

Yes, from a Jewish perspective you most certainly did. Israel, officially, is on the Jewish calendar. We only use the Christian calendar for communicating with the rest of the world.

66 posted on 03/20/2010 7:34:17 AM PDT by anotherview ("Ignorance is the choice not to know." -Klaus Schulze)
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To: anotherview

“Considering that Jews don’t believe in Jesus, yes, of course we use C.E. “

Well the Sanhedrin certainly had a part in the death of Jesus. Does using CE sort of sweep that under the rug?


67 posted on 03/20/2010 7:39:50 AM PDT by Rennes Templar
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To: anotherview

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!


68 posted on 03/20/2010 7:46:31 AM PDT by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Rennes Templar

“Well the Sanhedrin certainly had a part in the death of Jesus. Does using CE sort of sweep that under the rug?”

AH... the old charge of deicide. Anti-semitism at it’s worst and the basis of centuries of persecution of Jews by Christians. Thank you for making it so clear where you come from.

Let me rephrase: I never said that a man name Jesus (or more likely Yoshua) didn’t live. We don’t believe that he was in any way special or divine. Better?


69 posted on 03/20/2010 10:45:01 AM PDT by anotherview ("Ignorance is the choice not to know." -Klaus Schulze)
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To: anotherview

The argument here is not about anti-semitism. It’s about jewish collusion with humanists. Which, given your beliefs, doesn’t appear to be much of an issue.


70 posted on 03/20/2010 2:15:16 PM PDT by Rennes Templar
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To: Rennes Templar
"The argument here is not about anti-semitism. It’s about jewish collusion with humanists. Which, given your beliefs, doesn’t appear to be much of an issue."

Of course what you've written is anti-Semitic. If I'm not a Christian, if I don't accept Jesus as a diety, if I don't want to use a dating system that overtly states the diety of Jesus, then I am guilty of "collusion" with humanists. Would it shock you to learn that 100% of the Israeli media as well as the U.S. Jewish media uses CE/BCE? It's true, you know. HUGE CLUE: 100% of Jewish people don't believe in Jesus. To us it's Christian mythology, nothing more.

Oh, and before someone cites "messianic Jews" I will point out that no stream of Judaism accepts such people as Jewish. To us they are Christians, period.

So, as I stated before, once some Christians (a small but vocal minority) discover that Jewish belief isn't the same as Christian belief, they turn on us. That makes you precisely as tolerant towards Judaism as the fundamentalist Muslim. The only difference is that you probably won't try to kill me and the Islamist will. I guess that's worth something.

I still believe the minority of American Christians are tolerant enough to be true friends of Israel and the Jewish people. It seems I've found a couple of exceptions to that rule.

71 posted on 03/20/2010 4:48:07 PM PDT by anotherview ("Ignorance is the choice not to know." -Klaus Schulze)
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To: anotherview

“That makes you precisely as tolerant towards Judaism as the fundamentalist Muslim. The only difference is that you probably won’t try to kill me and the Islamist will.”

I have two good friends that are jewish. They have told me there are jews who have a persecution complex and play the victim card at the slightest issue. I now believe them.


72 posted on 03/21/2010 6:34:03 PM PDT by Rennes Templar
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To: Rennes Templar

“It’s about jewish collusion with humanists.”

Jewish people (in Israel, no less) refusing to adopt what they consider heresy is “collusion with humanists”?

Pffft.

I don’t get my panties in a wad when Christians use AD or BC or whatever. That’s between Christians and G-d.

I would expect the same respect from Christians to Jewish people.

Perhaps I am deluded.


73 posted on 03/22/2010 7:46:19 AM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: Jewbacca

“I don’t get my panties in a wad when Christians use AD or BC or whatever.”

Thanks for that. What a relif. Some certainly do get rather wadded up..


74 posted on 03/22/2010 7:52:02 AM PDT by Rennes Templar
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To: Rennes Templar

The only people I have ever seen get upset are those who protest BCE or CE.

Protest WE or BWE while you are at it. (Western Era or Before Western Era, used in Russia, China, Japan, etc.)


75 posted on 03/22/2010 7:54:35 AM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: Jewbacca

“Jewish people (in Israel, no less) refusing to adopt what they consider heresy is “collusion with humanists”?”

Why did they wait for humanists to change it?


76 posted on 03/22/2010 7:57:10 AM PDT by Rennes Templar
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To: Rennes Templar

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Israel as a nation came into being again in 1948.

BC/BCE or WE/BWE has existed as a construct since the League of Nations some 30 years earlier -— which was also when the Gregorian Calendar was decided to be used worldwide as a secular calendar.


77 posted on 03/22/2010 8:14:25 AM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: Jewbacca
"Israel as a nation came into being again in 1948."

Yepper, at least for Modern Times...I would proffer that the Jewish people did, for some/long time, in the past, rule that area as a nation/tribe....As the Redman in the USA---COULD say--- We,the tribes of redmen as you call us, ruled this country

78 posted on 03/22/2010 8:27:28 AM PDT by litehaus (A memory tooooo longt A)
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To: allmendream

Sorry I missed your post. On Friday night, Saturday and Saturday night I am a DJ in the FReeper Canteen and get around 500 posts per weekend that usually start around 8 PM my time on Friday night.

Now.....

“But for some reason it is “stealing” when Israel does it. Why is that?”

Because the “territory” of Texas was already a bonafied “territory” with a name.

There simply was no “Israel”. It was created by Jews from land that was not previously “Israel”.

As I said in the previous post, if you cannot see the difference then I truly empathize with you. :-)


79 posted on 03/23/2010 12:25:35 PM PDT by El Gran Salseron
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To: El Gran Salseron
Yes there was most certainly a land called Israel that was previously Israel.

And if they changed the name from what Mexico called it, THEN it would be illegitimate?

Because of the name change?

Hardly a matter of earthshaking import.

If Israel had called their new homeland “Palestine”, THEN it wouldn't have been “stealing”?

Ludicrous, but I suppose a bigot will cling to any justification, no matter how far fetched, to support their prejudice.

80 posted on 03/23/2010 12:35:35 PM PDT by allmendream (Income is EARNED not distributed. So how could it be re-distributed?)
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