Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Would Muslims Surrender Mecca? Should Catholics Give Up The Vatican?
Zionism and Aliya (blog) ^ | 18 March 2010 | Caitlyn Martin

Posted on 03/18/2010 12:01:27 PM PDT by anotherview

Would Muslims surrender Mecca? Should Catholics give up the Vatican? These may seem like ridiculous questions. The answer to both by any sane person would be "of course not." Why on earth would the answer to "Would Jews ever surrender Jerusalem?" be any different? The answer is simple. It shouldn't.

With the exception of a seven year period in the sixth century when the Persians restored Jewish sovereignty, the Jewish people were denied a homeland from 70 C.E. until 1948. During that time the Jewish people suffered pogroms, expulsions, mass murder, persecution, and assorted other forms of denial of basic human rights. Throughout that time the Jewish people prayed for one thing consistently: "Next year in Jerusalem." It's part of the Passover seder, the ceremonial feast, which the world's Jewish population will celebrate in two weeks time.

Hatikvah, the Israeli national anthem, is a Zionist prayer in song, a prayer for a Jewish home in the land of Zion and Jerusalem. Jerusalem is stressed and is in the refrain, the only part of the anthem which is repeated. Here is a translation of the lyrics:

As long as in the heart, within,
A Jewish soul still yearns,
And onward, towards the ends of the east,
An eye still gazes toward Zion;

Our hope is not yet lost,
The hope of two thousand years,
To be a free people in our land,
The land of Zion and Jerusalem.
These words, taken from a poem and set to music in 1888, are the essence of Zionism. More, they are the essence of Jewish national and cultural identity.

In recent days some have said that Prime Minister Netanyahu, and indeed the nation of Israel as a whole, will eventually have to make a choice between concessions which amount to surrendering sovereignty over much of Jerusalem or the friendship between Israel and the United States. Actually, that is no choice at all. Jews simply will not surrender sovereignty over Jerusalem. Those, particularly in the United States, who argue that we should include Jews who have somehow become divorced from their traditions, culture, their very identity as Jews. If we have to say goodbye to those people and say goodbye to support from the White House then that is what we will do.

Notice that I have made this argument without even once referring to Jewish and Christian religious beliefs. Of course it is religion which makes Jerusalem holy to Jews, just as Mecca is holy to Muslims and the Vatican is holy to Catholics. These beliefs, which the majority of Americans happen to share, are also being challenged by the White House. That has never been a recipe for much political support.

During Israel's 1948-49 War of Independence my father fought to lift the siege of Jerusalem. To him a Jewish state and the city of Jerusalem was worth fighting for. I can't say my views are any different. Israel survived against what seemed like impossible odds without any American help then. If need be it will do so again.

Anyone who insists that Israel should offer sovereignty as a concession prior to any negotiations for peace, with nothing in return, is asking Israel to surrender. What is the point of a Jewish state if not to maintain Jewish identity and hold on to what is precious to the Jewish people? Anyone who demands such a thing is no friend of Israel or the Jewish people, even if they can claim to be Jewish by birth. Oh, and yes, that includes the Obama Administration and anyone within the administration who insists that Israel not build in Ramat Shlomo or anywhere else in our holy city and capital.


TOPICS: History; Politics; Religion; Society
KEYWORDS: israel; jerusalem; mecca; obama; plugsbiden; ramatshlomo; waronterror
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-94 next last
To: Jewbacca

So, then Jews did NOT start a war and steal land from Palestinians? Is that the latest propganda?


41 posted on 03/18/2010 3:35:40 PM PDT by El Gran Salseron
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: dennisw; Cachelot; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; Lent; GregB; ..
Middle East and terrorism, occasional political and Jewish issues Ping List. High Volume

If you’d like to be on or off, please FR mail me.

..................

Would Muslims surrender Mecca? Should Catholics give up the Vatican? These may seem like ridiculous questions

Forget Mecca Caitlyn. Rome, including the Vatican, and much of southern Italy, as well as southern France and Spain are part of the Ummah, the proper question is the timing of their return. Probably parts of Paris, London too, along with all of Dearborn.

This article is only three days old.

Hamas Sermon in Gaza on Al-Aqsa TV: Rome Will Be Conquered by Islam

And remember when Columbus reached the new world, he was greeted by Muslims. The first European to traverse the continental US east to west was a Muslim (this may be partially true). The world belongs to Islam, it's not a question of if the infidel will "give up", rather when.

42 posted on 03/18/2010 4:05:02 PM PDT by SJackson (Barack Obama went to Harvard and became an educated fool. Rep. Bobby Rush)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: anotherview

Thanks, note the link in 42


43 posted on 03/18/2010 4:06:13 PM PDT by SJackson (Barack Obama went to Harvard and became an educated fool. Rep. Bobby Rush)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

Comment #44 Removed by Moderator

To: Jewbacca

oops sorry, that wasn’t for you.


45 posted on 03/18/2010 4:25:13 PM PDT by Rennes Templar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: anotherview

Amen!

Though I am a Christian of Irish and Native-American Descent I wholeheartedly agree with every word! One does not have to be Jewish to recognize that Jerusalem is the very heart and soul of Jewish Religion, Culture, and history.

Not to mention that The Jewish Bible mentions Jerusalem thousands of times, while the Koran and Hadiths bare give it a passing glance if at all.

19th Century photos of the Dome of the Rock show it neglected, in a state of disrepair, and overgrown with weeds.

The current claim of Jerusalem being the “Third Holiest City in Islam” is about 60 years old...about the same age as the State of ISRAEL!


46 posted on 03/18/2010 6:28:51 PM PDT by left that other site (Your Mi'KMaq Paddy Whacky Bass Playing Biker Buddy)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Jewbacca

Best comment. The force is strong with you Jewbacca.


47 posted on 03/18/2010 6:49:29 PM PDT by BenKenobi (And into this Ring he poured his cruelty, his malice and his will to dominate all life.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Jewbacca
Yes, idiots who think Jewish people should adopt a pagan calendar are gagging.

How impolite and vicious of you.

Putting different letters before or after the number of years since the birth of Christ, and pretending it doesn't signify the time before and after the birth of Christ is pretty silly in my view.

My sworn enemies, Communists and Fascists use CE and BCE as a tool of their trade. It's one of the things I use as a marker to identify them. You may not be my enemy, but you'll take friendly fire for wearing the mark of evil.

48 posted on 03/18/2010 9:29:45 PM PDT by MarineBrat (Better dead than red!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: MarineBrat

Nothing I said was impolite or vicious if you know history.

The Julian Calendar was an invention of pagan Rome, specifically, by Julius Ceasar.

It had zero to do with the person whom Christian deem the Messiah. Indeed, it predated Yeshua by 50 years or so.

Read the last sentence again.

The Gregorian Calendar (the one that is secularly used) was grafted onto to this pagan branch, retaining the names of pagan “gods” and Roman ceasars who would be “gods” as the months.

A perfectly good calendar has existed since G-d named the years and months on Mt. Sinai — the Hebrew Calendar.

Indeed, this actual Biblical calendar remains in use by the Christian Orthodox Church and by any number of governments not founded (however remotely) by pagan Rome.

If you want to celebrate Jupiter (Janis), Mars (March)and the rest of pagan “gods”, have at it.

I tolerate the paganism because the world has decided to use this old pagan calendar (which was a solar calendar) as a compromise, since it has been tinkered with by astronomers long enough to be accurate to make trains, planes, and spaceships fly correctly.

Pretending it has anything other than pagan roots, however, is absurd.


49 posted on 03/19/2010 7:32:18 AM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: paudio
Yes, but they didn't do so (surrender Constantinople)willingly and nobody called for them to do so willingly. They fell to the forces of Islam.

“If I forget thee oh Jerusalem
May my right hand forget it's cunning
If I do not remember thee
let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth
If I do not hold YOU above my chief joy.”

50 posted on 03/19/2010 7:39:21 AM PDT by allmendream (Income is EARNED not distributed. So how could it be re-distributed?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: El Gran Salseron
I don't understand why the USA should not give back the land that it stole from Mexico in 1848.

I don't understand why Sicily should not give back the land that it stole from Islam in 1130.

Etc, etc.

What is clear is that you “don't understand”.

Just how far back should be go to enforce the inane ‘rule’ you are attempting to establish that losers don't lose and winners don't win?

51 posted on 03/19/2010 7:46:37 AM PDT by allmendream (Income is EARNED not distributed. So how could it be re-distributed?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: anotherview

What would happen if Mecca had a natural disaster like a 9.0 earthquake?


52 posted on 03/19/2010 7:48:28 AM PDT by Eye of Unk ("In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act" G.Orwell)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Jewbacca
Feel free to insult and froth all you want. I have no complaint with you wanting to use a Jewish calendar. If you're Jewish then you should, though I'm sure you realize it doesn't go over too well in modern society.

But when you talk about the number of years since the birth of Jesus Christ, and you pretend that it's it's not the number of Years since the birth of Jesus Christ by placing CE or BCE after it, then you're assisting Communists and Fascists in their quest to destroy the civilization that Christ's followers have built.

53 posted on 03/19/2010 8:48:15 AM PDT by MarineBrat (Better dead than red!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]

To: MarineBrat

Facts are not pretending or frothing.

Because of the accuracy of the star-worshiping Romans, they made a nice solar calendar.

I am happy use the Gregorian Calendar as a secular calendar, but accepting the pagan beliefs inherant in the calendar have long been a source of discontent in Judaism and most of Christianity until the last century or so, until train time tables (and the need for a uniform calendar) have made acceptance of it practical.


54 posted on 03/19/2010 8:56:06 AM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: Jewbacca

I get the feeling that you take a pride in feeling superior to others, and that feeling is stroked when you use phrases like “star worshiping” and “pagan beliefs.” Such things give me no tingle up my leg. Here’s a phrase.... blow it out yer a**! And please, stop voting like women when the time comes.


55 posted on 03/19/2010 9:15:30 AM PDT by MarineBrat (Better dead than red!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies]

To: MarineBrat

““star worshiping” and “pagan beliefs”

That’s what the Romans worshipped.

Jupter, Mars, Venus. They made them into “gods.”

It’s really not controversial.


56 posted on 03/19/2010 9:36:01 AM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 55 | View Replies]

To: allmendream

I love the smell of anger in the morning. It smells like.....VICTORY! :-)


57 posted on 03/19/2010 9:48:05 AM PDT by El Gran Salseron
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: El Gran Salseron
Victory? Seems more like you have left my assertions unchallenged and they now have taken possession of the field of battle.

I am not angry at you, I find your “logic” to be ill.

That you cannot defend this ‘principle’ you have about “stolen land” speaks volumes as to how ill thought out and unsupportable your position is.

Do you think America should give back the lands it “stole” from Mexico? How is the principle any different?

Your unwillingness to engage in the argument makes it quite apparent that you have nothing constructive to say in your own defense, so you ludicrously declare “victory”.

Laughably inept.

58 posted on 03/19/2010 9:57:01 AM PDT by allmendream (Income is EARNED not distributed. So how could it be re-distributed?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: allmendream

I don’t have to “defend” my opinions to you or anyone else, got it? Principle? Who called it a “principle”? Not I.

However, the fact remains:

Jews started a war in 1948, ( with the help of the good ol’ U.S. of A., I might add ) and stole land from the Palestinians then called it their “country” named “Israel”.

Let’s see YOU defend THAT! Well, I know that you can’t defend fact but let’s see you try to justify it. :-)

Mexico? Who in the world said anything about Mexico? Not I.

Laughabley inept? Name calling? Tsk, tsk tsk.

It’s quite obvious that you have lost control of your emotions. Calm down. It’s just a useless discussion on an internet forum, for goodness’ sake. :-)


59 posted on 03/19/2010 1:50:12 PM PDT by El Gran Salseron
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: El Gran Salseron
Sure you do, you post something here you have to defend it, or it goes undefended.

You cannot be consistent in the application of your ‘rule’, showing that it is not well thought out or defensible.

My position is based upon the principle that “winners win” and “losers lose”.

According the the idea that land can be “stolen” in war, then why do you think that America should not give back the land it “stole” from Mexico?

If your position is not based upon any deeper principle, then perhaps it is based upon an irrational hatred of Jews.

Better try to control those irrational emotions there champ.

60 posted on 03/19/2010 1:56:14 PM PDT by allmendream (Income is EARNED not distributed. So how could it be re-distributed?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-94 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson