DOH indirectly confirms: Factcheck COLB date filed and certificate number impossible

Butterdezillion | Feb 23, 2010 | Butterdezillion

[butterdezillion]

I've updated my blog to include the e-mail from Janice Okubo confirming that they assign birth certificate numbers in the state registrar's office and the day they do that is the "Date filed by state registrar".

The pertinent portion from Okubo's e-mail:

In regards to the terms “date accepted” and “date filed” on a Hawaii birth certificate, the department has no records that define these terms. Historically, the terms “Date accepted by the State Registrar” and “Date filed by the State Registrar” referred to the date a record was received in a Department of Health office (on the island of O’ahu or on the neighbor islands of Kaua’i, Hawai’i, Maui, Moloka’i, or Lana’i), and the date a file number was placed on a record (only done in the main office located on the island of O’ahu) respectively.

MY SUMMARY: As you can see, Okubo said that the “Date filed by the State Registrar” is the date a file number was placed on a record (only done in the main office).

There are no pre-numbered certificates. A certificate given a certificate number on Aug 8th (Obama’s Factcheck COLB) would not be given a later number than a certificate given a number on Aug 11th (the Nordyke certificates).

There is no way that both the date filed and the certificate number can be correct on the Factcheck COLB. The COLB is thus proven to be a forgery.

[flowergirl]

ender has to be on the clock...I don’t think he was here much over the weekend :-)

[edge919]

Thanks for showing you didn’t read again. Chinese and Japanese were part of the standard race classifications I just quoted. Those aren’t the names dervied from continents like Afican is. You also glazed right over the part that said Hawaiian and part-Hawaiian were part of the standard categories ... meaning they were specifically accounting for Hawaiian birth practices.

Parse, you can’t score points when you keep dropping the ball. That’s like Obama and how he describes his bowling skills.

[parsifal]

I agree. I tried some at that last bar-b-que Eric threw. But, hey, Truth Trolls have to eat, too.

parsy, who is waiting for Big Billy Goat Gruff to pass over

[parsifal]

You might be right. Maybe somebody faked the COLB and messed up and put African on it. OR maybe somebody in the HDOH in 1961 put it in on purpose or in error.

In the “conspiracy universe” gov’t agencies always comply to the letter on every form and every procedure. And every deviation is part of the conspiracy.

In the “real world” universe, gov’t agencies screw up all the time and don’t follow their own procedures on a regular basis.

Pick your universe

parsy, who, with the help of meds, eschews delusions

parsy

[parsifal]

You want to believe? Hallelujah! We have saved you from birtherism! Kill the fatted goat! Bring wine and dancing girls!

Ok, dude, as you emerge from the grip of birtherism, the first thing you do is take a deep breath.....relax....now repeat to yourself.....mostly, things are what they seem....mostly, things are what they seem......the COLB is proof......the COLB is proof.....the birth announcements are real......the birth announcements are real.....

Now do this throughout the day every couple of hours. Stay away from birthers. Hang out with normal people.....have fun....

parsy, who is glad to welcome you back into the Fold of Reason

[edge919]

You’re rambling again. I said nothing about a conspiracy, and yet this is exactly what you yourself suggest by blaming this on a phantom government agency screw-up. The classification falls outside specified standards and is therefore consistent with the idea someone forged the alleged COLB ... it’s just one of many red flags. Whether it can be explained by simple error is unnecessary speculation when the issuing agency could follow its own rules and release the original birth certificate to the public.

[EnderWiggins]

"The DOH called the COLB into doubt by saying Obama was born in Hawaii, but inexplicably so by citing documents other than the original birth certificate as proof."

The only document that was ever cited by name in either of Fukino's statements was his "original birth certificate." So it appears that you are worng... again.

"If the original birth certificate (and associated COLB) are legitimate, there's no reason to cite anything else for place of birth."

Then it is a very good thing that the only thing that she cited was his "original birth certificate."

"The only reason to cite anything else is if the birth certificate is inadequate."

Apparently, then, it was completely adequate.

"No vital record maintained by the state of Hawaii declares anyone to be a natural-born American citizen. This was either a personal opinion or an outright lie."

Actually, those are not even close to being the only two options. But if it actually is the first, that's good enough, since we all know that anyone born on American soil who is not the child of a foreign diplomat or occupying army is a natural born citizen. She's as qualified to make that determination as anybody else based on a birth certificate that proves he was born in Hawaii.

"The bottom line is that the combination of these statements proves the alleged COLB is flawed and perhaps completely fraudulent."

The bottom line is that your "bottom line" follows from nothing that preceded it. It is about as logical as, well, an Orly Taitz pleading.

[edge919]

The only document that was ever cited by name in either of Fukino's statements was his "original birth certificate." So it appears that you are worng... again.

No, I'm not 'worng' but you are certainly wrong. Fukino didn't cite the original birth certificate as the place of birth. She only verified that she saw an original BC was on file in accordance with state law. Her second statement cited "vital records" not the original BC.

Actually, those are not even close to being the only two options. But if it actually is the first, that's good enough, since we all know that anyone born on American soil who is not the child of a foreign diplomat or occupying army is a natural born citizen.

No, this is only a faither myth. What you're describing is a Constitutional citizen. NBC is defined extraconstitutionally and with different parameters. Parsy cited parts of the Wong decision that explain this.

She's as qualified to make that determination as anybody else based on a birth certificate that proves he was born in Hawaii.

She didn't cite a birth certificate. We don't know where Obama was born and we certainly don't know how reliable these alleged vital records are when they aren't identified. If she was stating a personal opinion, then she needed to explain as much and why she thought so. I'd like to see the part of her job description that says it's her responsibility to make Constitutional declarations (although none says anything about 'natural-born American citizens'). My points still stand.

[EnderWiggins]

"Hawaii's own sunshine laws serve the public at large. I'm asking nothing more than is provided for in these essential laws. Attempted insults gain you no credibility."

Asking for records you are forbidding by law from accessing is not (in case you were unaware) provided for in these essential laws.

You still need to look up what the word "ambiguous" means.

"Both have been documented and ne'er debunked by verifiable proof that Obama was born in Hawaii."

That would be Birther lie #27b. No such documentation exists for such a statement by Obama's grandmother, and even most Birthers are not so stupid as to believe an Indonesian birth.

"Feel free to provide proof (that Heltan Mganaga was not the Cheief administratot of Coast provincial when Smith supposedly got his Kenyan BC)"

Sure.

Smith says he got the BC (and it is date stamped) on February 19, 2009 from Chief Administrator Heltan Maganga.

On September of 2008 (5 months before), the Chief Administrator was Jennifer Othigo.

http://www.nation.co.ke/News/-/1056/473466/-/item/0/-/10cmqw4z/-/index.html

On March 26, 2009 (a month after Smith says he got got the BC) Jennifer Othigo is still Chief Administrator.

http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/InsidePage.php?id=1144009846&cid=159&

Several weeks later, on April 13, Jennifer Othigo is still the Chief Administrator.

http://www.nation.co.ke/InDepth/-/452898/560148/-/tqw6oqz/-/index.html

Finally, on June 19, 2009 (four months too late) we find the first article where Heltan Maganga is Chief Administrator.

http://www.breakingnewskenya.com/2009/06/19/more-die-in-kenya-cholera-outbreak/

Oooops. When Lucas Smith was forging that BC he didn't do enough googling to discover he had the wrong CA signing the document on the wrong date.

"Lacking anyone to testify that Obama was seen as a newborn in Hawaii will get beat by the other testimony every time."

Not when the "other" testimony doesn't contradict anything that you need contradicted.

"Absolutely false. The UIPA plus the regular birth statutes gives the director of the DOH plenty of discretionary and mandatory authority to confirm it."

Except that it is against the law to do so.

"The U.S. State Department has said absolutley nothing about Obama's alleged COLB. Nice fantasy and nothing more than fantasy. All you have is faith and no facts. The American people deserve better. Don't carry water for a fraud."

Oh, sorry to disappoint you, but they have. Rather directly. Here's what they said about it:

"To the extent this paragraph alleges that President Obama’s birth certificate has not been released to the public, that allegation is denied. To the extent this paragraph alleges that the birth certificate released to the public at the direction of President Obama is not a valid birth certificate or that such certificate is not sufficient proof of U.S. citizenship, those allegations are denied."

http://www.scribd.com/doc/21654281/Docket-Item-17-DCD-08-Cv-2234-Strunk-FOIA-Answer-by-Defendants-to-Amended-Complaint-042309

[EnderWiggins]

"No, I'm not 'worng' but you are certainly wrong. Fukino didn't cite the original birth certificate as the place of birth. She only verified that she saw an original BC was on file in accordance with state law. Her second statement cited "vital records" not the original BC."

Now, I know how hard it is to connect real dots when you have made a career out of connecting imaginary ones, but if it is your assertion that an original birth certificate is not a vital record, only then might you be on to something. It remains simply true that the only vital record she has ever cited is Obama's "original birth certificate."

[BP2]

Beeps, Dude! If you increase the point size and bold, it does not magically transform “blather” into “truth”.

Don't worry, Parsley. It may be HTML-intensive, but it's still the truth! It's MOST CERTAINLY the truth, as opposed to your elusive and Sasquatch-like Obama COLB. Oh, hey ... I saw a "certified" photo of one of Sasquatch's footprints on Ebay just now if you want to buy that, too. LOL!

Ya know ... I keep hoping that if you After-Birther kooks can SEE it well enough, it might actually sink in how NUTS you Conspiracy Theorists are in actually believing in Obama’s “birth certificate.”

You simpletons saw it on the Internet, and it's from HIGHLY-dubious sources, yet you say it's definitely FOR REAL anyway — LOL!
IT'S JUST AS REAL AS AL GORE'S GLOBAL WARMING!!!
But alas, your dense, pointed heads just are too thick to seep it in! We keep trying to help open your eyes to be wiser about the illogical, but you After-Birthers are punch-drinking TRUE BELIEVERS and hard to get through to.

It's kinda like the futility of watching Obama on TV and trying to adjust the BRIGHTNESS and SHARPNESS knobs to make him smarter ... it just does NOT make a damn bit of difference !!!

Oh, and once again ... here’s your sign:

[Fred Nerks]

It's been obvious to me for quite some time exactly where you are coming from 'Parsifal' - you just outed yourself with this comment on another thread:

This is what passes for logical argument nowadays. I’m telling you, like the Salem Witch Trial mob. Suspicions become truth. Yeah, this kind of stuff does us proud. /s

FACTCHECK. LINK

March 1, 2010 March 1, 1692, marked the beginning of the Salem Witch Trials.

[edge919]

An original birth certificate does NOT = vital recordssssss (plural, do you understand??). If the little bastard’s BC was legit and proved place of birth, there’s no need to cite anything else, yet she did. And she made certain to explain that she wasn’t talking about the birth certificate which was cited in a completely separate statement. Let’s not perpetuate another faither myth and assume she was talking about something when she clearly wasn’t.

[DJ MacWoW]

Not the first time he’s been outed.

[Fred Nerks]

It’s factcheck from start to finish. Misinformation Central.
Arguing with the perps. Waste of time.

[DJ MacWoW]

Yes. It is a waste of time. They are also fishing to see how much is known.

[parsifal]

Thank you for the link! Very interested in the Witch Trials and have several books on the subject. Cotton Mather was the main villain and he went to his death still maintaining they were witches. In spite of the fact that evrybody recanted and apologized.

As far as the other, I make no effort to hide my opinion of the birther movement. I don’t diss all birthers because I think majority are just simply being misled by the Bad Birthers.

parsy, who invented the Truth Trolls, the Sanity Squad, Captain Quest, Collective Birther Conciousness, Birther Units, Borg Birther Queen Orly, Ode to Orly Taitz, Obamaville, etc., but what else is a Truth Troll supposed to do?

[parsifal]

“Yes. It is a waste of time. They are also fishing to see how much is known.”

Dang, you caught me! With my Charlie Brown kiddie fishing pole, two pound line, and a teeny weeny little hook.

parsy, who is fuming at being busted!

[DJ MacWoW]

You act the fool very well. Too well. Some people are taken in by it.

[TLI]

"I Want To Believe"

Holy Carp, that is series hugh!

(funnest thing I have seen on FR in a loooooong time!)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!