Is this really it? (re: possible Obama's Kenyan B.C. - Attny Taitz) Click on the link

orlytaitzesq.com ^ | 8/2/2009 | rxsid

[rxsid]

Attorney Taitz filed a NOTICE OF MOTION AND MOTION to Expedite authentication, MOTION for Issuance of Letters Rogatory for authenticity of Kenyan birth certificate filed by Plaintiff Alan Keyes PhD.

Barry's Kenyan B.C.??

Special Motion for leave

http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/blog1/ (site has been the target of hackers, proceed with caution — John)

[jcsjcm]

"that if it came out that Obama was born in Hawaii (he wasn't),"

I am becoming increasingly curious as to your statements that keep popping up in your threads. Your (statements) instill in me that you know something and it will only be a matter of time before it all comes out. It's providing me with a ray of hope, but I'm not quite sure if your statements are of opinion or of known fact. Please tell me they are of known fact.......

[null and void]

Could they have been married in Kenya? There would be no record in HI of that marriage.

Yes. Indeed, for them to have a lawful marriage they would have to be, as Hawaiian law will only [reluctantly] recognize a bigamist marriage if it is valid where the marriage took place. That ain't Hawaii.

Of course that would put a pregnant Stanley Ann in Kenya, wouldn't it?...

[null and void]

Cymraeg? I’d guess Welsh...

[editor-surveyor]

"Well from my last post, I would say (in jest) to editor-surveyor that I have represented a bunch of surveyors and engineers over the years and it is clear from his post that he, unlike BP2, is not a lawyer."

Good guess! (my ex wife is a lawyer, and I constantly do work for lawyers, but I have no desire to practice law)

"The author's comment that "[m]any have said that de Vattel’s Law of Nations . . . . " is speculative and argumentative. It's probably fair to believe that most of the participants in the drafting of the Constitution were familiar with the document and that it had some influence. But who and how much is just unsupported speculation."

Sounds like you're clinging to your emotions here rather than good legal sense. The phrases directly taken from Vattel that have found their way into the Declaration, and the Constitution, coupled with the framers well known and well read letters, tends to demolish your position on that.

"But the most important point to draw from this discussion pertains to our legal system. The engineer surveyor mindset tends to view these legal questions like mathematical calculations of the line location--they aren't."

Letting emotions creep in again? - Excepting in a mapped tract, line locations are rarely determined by mathematics. Things like intent of the grantor, and the question of what the grantor may really have owned vs. what he thought did, are far more likely to be of influence. This is why lawyers come to me for opinions far more often than for calculations, or questions of practice.

"And proving facts today that show him to be ineligible does not get him out of office either."

And that is the biggest thing wrong with this country today. Courts do not uphold the clear law; they do what they see as politically expedient. Ina nutshell, that is the cancer that is dissolving the foundations of this nation.

[null and void]

;^P

[Houghton M.]

It’s very clear to me that even if it were ever proven that ZerO is not eligible to be president, he will never be removed from office for that reason. He would be retroactively made eligible.

This is not about removing Obama from office as far as I’m concerned. Some people read detective mysteries. Others enjoy the mystery of Barack Obama. Even you have to admit that his biography and that of his family is very, very, very murky. That makes curious people curioser.

Some birthers are indeed deeply invested in removing Obama by that means. But I’m not one of them—perhaps that means I’m not a birther. And a lot of people posting here are also resigned to the fact that even if his ineligibility could be proven, it would not lead to his removal.

So you paint with too broad a brush.

Many of us have repeatedly said that we won’t be surprised if the Taitz document proves to be a forgery. We are not invested in it being proven authentic. We are however tantalized by the mystery surrounding the present occupant of the White House. No president has ever hidden so much of his past.

It would be very surprising if people were not attracted, fascinated by the murkiness.

[editor-surveyor]

Technical wrote that to you :o)

Per FR etiquette, I pinged you in response.

[Vendome]

Then using your argument Barry has divided allegiance. Meaning his birth is not wholely of on Nationality but of two.

Barry’s citizenship at birth was plural. There is no way he was under the “totall jurisdiction” of the USA. He also was under the jurisdiction of Kenya and whatever status it held as a state in 1961 and the subsequent status of independance just a few years later.

You cannot claim the wholeness of one when you are both.

Try this excercise:

American Citizenship cannot be conferred upon a baby whose parents are citizens of another country.

Think of this way. Mom and Dad, from say, Paris, France come to Disneyland in Los Angeles. While they are here, on vacation, the very pregnant, French Mom goes into labor.

Well the smart thing to do is get to a hospital. So they do, cuz they are smart (they are French after all).

So while the smart, French, pregnant woman is in the hospital she gives birth. We can say it is a boy for the purpose of this discussion.

Anyway, out pops this kid, thing, with ten fingers and ten toes. Perfect. Except now the vacation is over and the newly minted French Mom and Dad have to go home. They live in the Montmartre District of Paris and can’t wait to get home and have their baby blessed and baptized, at a little church called Sacré Coeur.

This beautiful white church is just a couple of blocks up from them and sits on a hill overlooking Paris. It will be a beautiful, momentous and joyous occasion.

So they leave the next day on board a British Airways flight, so the French Mom can lay down on a bed for the overnight flight and be comfortable.

The French Mom and French Dad, arrive at de Gaulle International and the immigration and customs people, of France, ask for the passport of the French Mom and French Dad.

They ask if the French Mom and French Dad have anything to declare and ....

So what nationality is the child?

[Vendome]

I think Vendome is curious as to why you self-selected that particular handle.

Now that you mention it, so am I...

[rxsid]

"WND is today claiming that the KBC may be a forgery.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=106135"

Interesting to note, they are comparing (apparently) a full birth certificate (i.e. not a copy of one) from 1961 to a certified copy of registration of birth. Is that like comparing "apples to oranges?"

[null and void]

Somewhere on this great, long thread there is a discussion about an interview of Ann Obama’s BABYSITTER that she used n Seattle when she was in school. Does anyone remember where that was? I’d like to make a note of its location because I’ve not seen it elsewhere.

Here's as good a place to start as any...

[Milesc]

“And I should add that CA also had a Republican Administration in 1968. Republicans, for the most part, are good at following rules.”

You mean the rule that says Eldridge Cleaver has to provide a BC, but most candidates don’t?

[RichieVan]

Great article on why Wong Kim Ark cannot be used to determined natural born citizenship.

http://federalistblog.us/2006/12/us_v_wong_kim_ark_can_never_be_considered.html

[Cymraeg]

Many of the above are making an error in logic. Within the overall class: Citizen they assert there are 3 sub-classes (1) Natural-Born Citizen, (2) Citizen, ans (3) Naturalized Citizen. This gives rise to the following logical arguments:

If a Citizen, then a Citizen (True)
If a Citizen, then a Citizen (False)

There is no way to reconcile this.

The Founding Fathers were all well versed in Logic which was part of the classical education.

The correct structure is: The overall class, Citizen contains 2 sub-classes: (1) Natural-Born Citizen, and (2) Naturalized Citizen. The 14th Amendment states that all persons born on US soil are citizens with no reference to the citizenship of parents. This leads to the conclusion that these Citizens are Natural-Born or Naturalized. The conclusion is obvious: Natural-Born.

[Vendome]

Maybe I watch to much Jeopardy

[Marine_Uncle]

And that is the position I hold as well.

[faucetman]

To those who think McCain was eligible to be president:

McCain was born in a foreign country in a hospital owned by the railroad in a city NOT under U.S. jurisdiction. He CAN NOT be a natural born citizen. If you can’t be convinced of that from his own birth certificates and that he was even born in an area of the canal zone that was EXCLUDED from the treaty that gave the U.S. ANY jurisdiction in the rest of the zone (not that any of the canal zone was U.S. territory, but people just don’t seem to accept that FACT), then I guess you just can’t deal with reality.

From the Panama Canal Treaty of 1903:

“with the proviso that the cities of Panama and Colon and the harbors adjacent to said cities, which are included within the boundaries of the zone above described, shall not be included within this grant”.

http://faculty.chass.ncsu.edu/slatta/hi216/documents/pancantreaty.htm

See John McCain birth certificates for yourself.

http://panamajohn.dominates.us/articles/20-2-3-x2.jpg

http://johnmccain.dominates.us/

[Milesc]

“Obama birth doc update: Kenya sources weigh in
Comparison with similar certificates suggests fakery, WND probe reveals”

[faucetman]

Sounds like WND is at least a day behind. What the heck is that CRAP they call documents they posted? What kind of an image is that? AND WHY would we trust KENYAN officials? or Jerome Corsi for that matter.

I appreciate WND but they get stuff wrong too.

[Vendome]

Well I am just dumb today. I think I am still hungover from my little operation yesterday.

Sorry about that.