Posted on 03/07/2015 2:48:45 PM PST by RaceBannon
As you pointed out, Joseph's dream, in similar sun, moon, and star symbols, was about a person, Joseph. The stars were Joseph's brothers, progenitors of the other tribes of Israel. Your reference to his own receiving him not and being the woman is totally out of character with Revelation Twelve. Instead, it fits the one who stood faithfully by the Holy One, in conception, birth, life, death, resurrection, and ascension. It is about a real woman, Miriam, the blessed Virgin of Israel, who personifies and incompasses not only Israel, but the holy catholic apostolic church..
**Your reference to his own receiving him not and being the woman is totally out of character with Revelation Twelve.**
That’s your church’s vain imagination. After Jesus ascended, she was in the upper room for days waiting for the Holy Ghost, not in the wilderness.
You believe it literally is Mary.
Is it literally the Sun that clothes her?
Is it literally the moon that she stands on?
Was there literally a dragon, as described, in the stable?
“And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he he might cause her to be carried away like a flood. And the earth opened HER mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the REMNANT of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testamony of Jesus Christ.” Rev.12:15-17
The earth is in the feminine, just like Israel.
The REMNANT of her seed. The Israel of God.
**It is about a real woman, Miriam, the blessed Virgin of Israel, who personifies and incompasses not only Israel, but the holy catholic apostolic church..**
Wow, you folks really do believe she is equal with God.
They sure leave out a lot in their study.
Where were these verses?
14:10 “Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak NOT of MYSELF: but the Father that DWELLETH IN ME, HE doeth the works”.
14:11 “Believe me that I am IN the Father, and the Father IN me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.” And he just told us in the previous verse WHO DOETH the WORKS.
And this one..
Jesus praying to the Father (John 17:1), “And this is life eternal, that they might know THEE the ONLY TRUE GOD, ........AND........JESUS CHRIST, whom THOU hast SENT.” John 17:3.
So, do you disagree with the Son, who declares the Father to be the “ONLY TRUE GOD”?
I have much more, but over 720 miles, almost half of it 2 lane. The climbing up and down, chaining, strapping, etc. I can’t stay up any more tonight.
Thanks for you opinion.
Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom. But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish. For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
**The sun is a symbol
The moon is a symbol
The dragon is a symbol**
You agree to symbolism, but reserve the woman to literally be a woman (Mary/Miriam). Adjusting the story fit a preconceived notion is private interpretation.
As I said, the nation of Israel is the woman. Here are just a few references of Israel in the feminine:
Jeremiah 31:4; Amos 5:1,2, speak of the ‘virgin of Israel’ in prophetic passages about the nation.
Jer. 6:2, speaks of the ‘daughter of Zion’ in a passage clearly about the nation.
Jer. 4:30,31. “And when thou art spoiled, what wilt thou do? Though thou clothest thyself with crimson, though thou deckest thee with ornaments of gold, though thou rentest thy face with painting, in vain shalt thou make thyself fair; thy lovers will seek thy life. For I have heard a voice as of a woman in travail, and the anguish as of her that bringeth forth her first child, the voice of the daughter of Zion, that bewaileth herself, that spreadeth her hands, saying, Woe is me now! for my soul is wearied because of murderers”.
Isaiah 40:2, “Spesk comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the lord’s hand double for all her sins.”
Isaiah 51:3 “For the Lord shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all her waste places; and he will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden of the Lord; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of melody”.
I said before: After Jesus ascended, Mary was in the upper room for days waiting for the Holy Ghost, not in the wilderness.
The REMNANT of her seed, is the remnant that the Lord saves after the tribulation.
Mary is of Israel, not Israel of Mary. And know that neither Jesus Christ, nor his apostles EVER used the phrase ‘God the Son’, but always used the phrase ‘Son of God’. I believe that they completely understood the Godhead.
Are you ‘Free Republic the af_vet_1981’, or are you ‘af_vet_1981 of Free Republic’?
Following the principle of first mention, In Genesis I see the symbols for the sun, moon, and stars in Joseph's dream, not to mention Israel, who is a man. Now Israel loved Joseph more than all his children, because he was the son of his old age: and he made him a coat of many colours. And when his brethren saw that their father loved him more than all his brethren, they hated him, and could not speak peaceably unto him. And Joseph dreamed a dream, and he told it his brethren: and they hated him yet the more. And he said unto them, Hear, I pray you, this dream which I have dreamed: For, behold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and, lo, my sheaf arose, and also stood upright; and, behold, your sheaves stood round about, and made obeisance to my sheaf. And his brethren said to him, Shalt thou indeed reign over us? or shalt thou indeed have dominion over us? And they hated him yet the more for his dreams, and for his words. And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me. And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth? And his brethren envied him; but his father observed the saying.
Genesis, Catholic chapter thirty seven, Protestant verses three to eleven, as authorized, but not authored, by King James
Since you must agree that the sun represents Jacob, the moon Rachel, and the stars Joseph's brothers, you cannot avoid the inference that similar symbols in the Revelation vision also represent similar people (ie., Sun => Jewish Patriarchs, Moon => Jewish Matriarchs, Twelve Stars => Twelve Tribes of Israel), and thus the woman herself is adorned with Israel, but is not simply Israel. Further, this woman must have given birth to a man child who ascended up to heaven. Your list of candidates grows thin.
Here are just a few references of Israel in the feminine:
Jeremiah 31:4; Amos 5:1,2, speak of the ‘virgin of Israel’ in prophetic passages about the nation.
Jer. 6:2, speaks of the ‘daughter of Zion’ in a passage clearly about the nation.
Jer. 4:30,31. “And when thou art spoiled, what wilt thou do? Though thou clothest thyself with crimson, though thou deckest thee with ornaments of gold, though thou rentest thy face with painting, in vain shalt thou make thyself fair; thy lovers will seek thy life. For I have heard a voice as of a woman in travail, and the anguish as of her that bringeth forth her first child, the voice of the daughter of Zion, that bewaileth herself, that spreadeth her hands, saying, Woe is me now! for my soul is wearied because of murderers”.
Isaiah 40:2, “Speak comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the lord’s hand double for all her sins.”
Isaiah 51:3 “For the Lord shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all her waste places; and he will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden of the Lord; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of melody”.
Indeed And the pride of Israel doth testify to his face: therefore shall Israel and Ephraim fall in their iniquity; Judah also shall fall with them. They shall go with their flocks and with their herds to seek the LORD; but they shall not find him; he hath withdrawn himself from them. They have dealt treacherously against the LORD: for they have begotten strange children: now shall a month devour them with their portions. And the pride of Israel testifieth to his face: and they do not return to the LORD their God, nor seek him for all this. For Israel hath forgotten his Maker, and buildeth temples; and Judah hath multiplied fenced cities: but I will send a fire upon his cities, and it shall devour the palaces thereof. When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt. And Jacob fled into the country of Syria, and Israel served for a wife, and for a wife he kept sheep. And by a prophet the LORD brought Israel out of Egypt, and by a prophet was he preserved. O Israel, return unto the LORD thy God; for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity. Take with you words, and turn to the LORD: say unto him, Take away all iniquity, and receive us graciously: so will we render the calves of our lips. Asshur shall not save us; we will not ride upon horses: neither will we say any more to the work of our hands, Ye are our gods: for in thee the fatherless findeth mercy. I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely: for mine anger is turned away from him. I will be as the dew unto Israel: he shall grow as the lily, and cast forth his roots as Lebanon. His branches shall spread, and his beauty shall be as the olive tree, and his smell as Lebanon. They that dwell under his shadow shall return; they shall revive as the corn, and grow as the vine: the scent thereof shall be as the wine of Lebanon. Ephraim shall say, What have I to do any more with idols? I have heard him, and observed him: I am like a green fir tree. From me is thy fruit found. Who is wise, and he shall understand these things? prudent, and he shall know them? for the ways of the LORD are right, and the just shall walk in them: but the transgressors shall fall therein.
Hosea, Catholic chapters five, seven, eight, eleven, fourteen,
Protestant verses five to seven, ten, fourteen, one, twelve to thirteen, one to nine,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James
I said before: After Jesus ascended, Mary was in the upper room for days waiting for the Holy Ghost, not in the wilderness.
The REMNANT of her seed, is the remnant that the Lord saves after the tribulation.
I think I see a preconceived notion here.
Mary is of Israel, not Israel of Mary.
You are forgetting that Miriam bore the Messiah, and the holy catholic apostolic church of which she is an integral part, so to speak. Remember also that Matthew records a fulfillment of "Israel" from Hosea in And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way. And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him. When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt: And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.. Matthew, Catholic chapter two, Protestant verses twelve to fifteen, as authorized, but not authored by King James
And know that neither Jesus Christ, nor his apostles EVER used the phrase ‘God the Son’, but always used the phrase ‘Son of God’. I believe that they completely understood the Godhead.
How can you know that ? Which faith community do you belong to ? This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true. And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.John, Catholic chapter twenty one, Protestant verses twenty four to twenty five, as authorized, but not authored by King James
Are you ‘Free Republic the af_vet_1981’, or are you ‘af_vet_1981 of Free Republic’?
Both and more
**Following the principle of first mention, In Genesis I see the symbols for the sun, moon, and stars in Joseph’s dream, not to mention Israel, who is a man.**
The dream is told, and then interpretted by Jacob (Israel), making it clear who is the sun, moon, and stars. They are all equal in submission to Joseph. Joseph, as himself, is lord over them all.
In Revelation 12, John breaks away from the order of the tribulation events, to tell a history of the Jews, their long fight against Satan, and the promise of a deliverer. The vision is told, but the description is not the same layout as Joseph’s dream. The ‘woman’ is wearing the sun and stars. They make up the chosen and annointed nation of Israel (consisting of the twelve tribes). The moon is ‘under her feet’, which is not a place of honor. The ‘moon’ is more than submissive; it is defeated. In this vision the ‘moon’ is Satan, imo. Do you think that the ‘matriarchs’ are to be under foot?
There is no witness for your interpretation that the woman is specifically Mary. But as the nation of Israel, there are numerous witnesses by the prophets, speaking of the 3 1/2 years, and that it pertains to the nation of Israel as a whole, not to an individual. Ditto for the ‘remnant’.
**And Jacob fled into the country of Syria, and Israel served for a wife, and for a wife he kept sheep. And by a prophet the LORD brought Israel out of Egypt, and by a prophet was he preserved.**
Jacob (’Israel’) entered Egypt with his family, but was buried in Canaan. His descendants left as the nation of Israel, led by the prophet Moses. Likewise, God called the child Jesus out of Egypt.
The Rev. 12 account is not the only story ‘tweaked’ to build a case for Mary being something other than she really is. The denial of Mary having more children is based on interpretting ‘brethern’ and ‘sisters’, as cousins, since in some cases the Greek word can be used for both siblings or cousins. But, context is key to understanding:
In Matthew 13:53-58 (also Mark 6:1-6, and Luke 4:16-30), we find Jesus Christ leaving an area, and coming back “into his own country”, where “had been brought up” (Lk 4:16)(He had already made a name for himself elsewhere, with his teaching and miracles). After teaching in the synagogue in Nazareth, the people said, “Whence hath THIS man this wisdom, and these mighty works? Is not THIS the carpenter’s son? is not HIS mother called Mary? and HIS brethern, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? And HIS sisters, are they not all with us? whence then hath THIS man ALL THESE THINGS? And they were offended in him.......And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.”
His hometown folks couldn’t understand how he could be so DIFFERENT from his siblings, seeing that they had known the whole family for YEARS. They had watched all the kids grow up. WHY did HE turn out so different from the other kids. It didn’t make sense. So much so, they were offended that this hometown boy, this man that had grown up right there, would be displaying such authority.
They were offended.......just like Jacob and Joseph’s brothers were offended that Joseph would seem to place himself in such a high position.
An only child would have had no such comparisons.
“And his brethern therefore said unto him, depart hence, and go into Judea, that thy disciples also may see the works that thou doest.......for neither did his brethern believe in him.” John 7:3,5
**You are forgetting that Miriam bore the Messiah**
You are forgetting that before ‘Miriam’ was, ‘I AM’ had been around a LONG time.
I said: And know that neither Jesus Christ, nor his apostles EVER used the phrase ‘God the Son’, but always used the phrase ‘Son of God’. I believe that they completely understood the Godhead.
You replied: How can you know that ? Which faith community do you belong to ?
It doesn’t matter that there is so much not written about the Lord. He hasn’t changed, and neither has his words, or his doctrine. So it doesn’t matter what church I attend, if all I do is testify to his written words as true. (I’m a Oneness Apostolic)
Revelation is not a history of the Jews. It is prophecy . The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
Revelation, Catholic chapter one, Protestant verses one to three, as authorized, but not authored, by King James
There is no witness for your interpretation that the woman is specifically Mary.
I call the angel Gabriel to the stand. And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Luke, Catholic chapter one, Protestant verses twenty six to thirty three, as authorized, but not authored, by King James
**Revelation is not a history of the Jews. It is prophecy.**
God tells the truth in prophecy,
It is no lie, it’s history.
Revelation does indeed tell of the things that must come to pass. But, in chapter 12, we both agree the the child was born, and has been caught up to God. That HAS come to pass. (verses 1-5) If you use the twelve sons (twelve stars) of Jacob (Israel) as a starting point, there is almost 2,000 yrs of ‘labor pains’ leading up to the Christ child’s birth.
Israel still has to see the 3 1/2 weeks “into the wilderness”, where the nation is allowed by the beast to set up temple worship. (verse 6)
Then it is plunged into the 3 1/2 weeks of great tribulation, and the ‘remnant of her seed’ saved. (7-17)
**I call the angel Gabriel to the stand.**
Mary absolutely is the individual that gave birth to the Son of God. But Mary is of the tribe of Judah, which is of the nation of Israel. I pointed out that the ‘3 1/2 weeks’, and the ‘remnant of her seed’ do not refer to an individual, but to the nation of Israel, referred to in the feminine, as so often has been done.
We agree. Whatever prophetic truths come to pass, there is no one, save Messiah himself, who more personifies Israel than Miriam, and Messiah is not a woman, but is Miriam's son. So, for the woman in Revelation, in order to get Israel, you must have Miriam.
**Whatever prophetic truths come to pass, there is no one, save Messiah himself, who more personifies Israel than Miriam, and Messiah is not a woman, but is Miriam’s son.**
To you she is the symbol of Israel. You elevate her higher than the apostle Paul does: “....the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone.”
Mary was not an apostle or prophet. You place her second only to God. Truly, you folks are obsessed with her more than Jesus Christ.
I pointed out that Jesus’ own half-brothers were among the unbelievers in Nazareth, showing a similar situation to what the dreamer,Joseph, had with his half-brothers (his only full brother, Benjamin, had nothing to do with rejecting him).
After telling his dream, Joseph’s father interpretted it.
“And his brothers envied him; but his father observed the saying”. Gen. 37:11
When the twelve year old Jesus tells his mother, “How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father’s business?” Luke 2:49
“..but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart”.
Joseph was elevated to be over Israel (the man, his sons, and their families).
Jesus Christ is over Israel (the faithful, whether Jew or Gentile).
Mary, aside from raising the Child, was not elevated in power over any individual or nation.
She is still asleep in Christ, waiting for the trump to sound, just like the others that have died in the faith.
Your organization has built so many traditions about her, and have dwelt on them so much, you can’t believe anything else.
**So, for the woman in Revelation, in order to get Israel, you must have Miriam.**
So Mary is the mother of Jacob.........That seems to be your position.
We will just have to agree to disagree.
To me, she is the holy, blessed, and faithful Virgin of Israel and spiritual mother to every disciple that Jesus loves.
To you she is the symbol of Israel. You elevate her higher than the apostle Paul does: “....the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone.”
It seems to me you aver the Messiah did build his church on the Apostle Cephas.
**Whatever prophetic truths come to pass, there is no one, save Messiah himself, who more personifies Israel than Miriam, and Messiah is not a woman, but is Miriam’s son.**
To you she is the symbol of Israel. You elevate her higher than the apostle Paul does: “....the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone.”
Mary was not an apostle or prophet. You place her second only to God. Truly, you folks are obsessed with her more than Jesus Christ.
I love and honor her. Perhaps you could look in the mirror for obsession and contemplate its source. Whence cometh hatred of the woman ?
I pointed out that Jesus’ own half-brothers were among the unbelievers in Nazareth, showing a similar situation to what the dreamer,Joseph, had with his half-brothers (his only full brother, Benjamin, had nothing to do with rejecting him).
Joseph and his brethren had the same father, but different mothers. We do not know geneaologies of Jesus' brethren. We know those of Joseph and his brethren.
After telling his dream, Joseph’s father interpretted it. “And his brothers envied him; but his father observed the saying”. Gen. 37:11 When the twelve year old Jesus tells his mother, “How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father’s business?” Luke 2:49 “..but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart”. Joseph was elevated to be over Israel (the man, his sons, and their families). Jesus Christ is over Israel (the faithful, whether Jew or Gentile).
Mary, aside from raising the Child, was not elevated in power over any individual or nation.
You will wait and see.
She is still asleep in Christ, waiting for the trump to sound, just like the others that have died in the faith.
Where are Moses and Elijah (not to mention other saints raised from the dead) ?
Your organization has built so many traditions about her, and have dwelt on them so much, you can’t believe anything else.
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you. **So, for the woman in Revelation, in order to get Israel, you must have Miriam.** Since Jesus loves Jacob, and Jacob loves Jesus, then I suppose Miriam can be Jacob's honored spiritual mother too. We will just have to agree to disagree. As you wish
Phillipians, Catholic chapter four, Protestant verses eight to nine, as authorized, but not authored, by King James
So Mary is the mother of Jacob.........That seems to be your position.
**To me, she is the holy, blessed, and faithful Virgin of Israel and spiritual mother to every disciple that Jesus loves.**
See, there you go, giving her a status that isn’t scriptural. When people are born of the Spirit, they are born of God, not born of Mary.
**It seems to me you aver the Messiah did build his church on the Apostle Cephas.**
Just like Paul, Peter (Cephas) says that Jesus Christ is the “chief corner stone”. (1Peter 2:6).
**I love and honor her.**
Nothing wrong with that. I do as well. It’s the make believe stuff your organization has said about her: ‘immaculate conception’, ‘forever a virgin’, ‘Queen of Heaven’, ‘Co-Redemptrix’, ‘Mother Of God’, etc.
God has no mother, no beginning or ending. “Wherefore when He cometh into the world, he saith,” (Jesus Christ, whose goings forth have been from old, said to God the Father) “Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me.” Heb. 10:5
God the Father made Christ’s body in Mary’s womb. Mary didn’t make the soul or the Spirit that dwelled in that body. And Peter (Cephas) said, “..God hath MADE that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, BOTH Lord and Christ.
God made Jesus Lord and Christ, not Mary. Being chosen to carry the tabernacle of flesh, that the Son would dwell in, was a blessed honor. I simply don’t give credit for making more of God, for that is not possible.
**Whence cometh hatred of the woman ?**
Because I disagree with your traditions, I’m a hater? Are you a Democrat, that accuses hate or racism, when disagreeing with the prez?
**Where are Moses and Elijah (not to mention other saints raised from the dead) ?**
Did Jesus tell you to pray to Moses or Elijah?
Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout. They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did. Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene. When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you. For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me. For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church. Now some are puffed up, as though I would not come to you. But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power. For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power. What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?
Cephas is the Apostle to the Circumcision. Messiah founded the holy catholic apostolic church on Cephas as well. Messiah is the chief cornerstone of that foundation, which also consists of the historical Jewish apostles and prophets. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Matthew, Catholic chapter sixteen, Protestant verses seventeen to nineteen,
Ephesians, Catholic chapter two, Protestant verses eleven to twenty two,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James
Where are Moses and Elijah (not to mention other saints raised from the dead) ? And Elijah the Tishbite, who was of the inhabitants of Gilead, said unto Ahab, As the Lord God of Israel liveth, before whom I stand, there shall not be dew nor rain these years, but according to my word. And Elijah answered and said to the captain of fifty, If I be a man of God, then let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And there came down fire from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty. Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire. When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves. And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth. Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, Come up here. And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them. In the same hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. In the earthquake seven thousand people were killed, and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven. The second woe is past. Behold, the third woe is coming quickly.
First Kings, Catholic chapter seventeen, Protestant verse one,
Second Kings, Catholic chapter one, Protestant verse ten,
Revelation, Catholic chapter eleven in its entirety, as authorized, but not authored, by King James
....**When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.**
It’s pretty simple, Jesus told Mary to accept John as his replacement, and assigned John to look after his mother in his stead.
You need a verse where Jesus Christ and/or his apostles specifically say that Mary is to be ‘spiritual mother’ to believers. The apostles don’t even mention her by name in any of the epistles.
The Lord is wise. He didn’t address her as ‘mother’ while on the cross (or any other time in the scriptures). As it was, He knew people would be trying to make a goddess out of her.
..**That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church;**..
You really need that to say: “That thou art Peter, and upon you, the rock, I will build my church.”
Jesus didn’t say that, because he was referring to the revelation Peter had of the Lord. Which Peter comfirms by declaring the Lord as the ‘chief corner stone’. Paul is also witness to that revelation.
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