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Rewriting History : The decipherment of Linear A and a history of Egypto-Cretan relations
YouTube ^ | April 27, 2023 | An interview with author Mark Cook

Posted on 05/23/2023 8:00:12 AM PDT by SunkenCiv

An interview with author Mark Cook to discuss his 2022 published book on the decipherment of Linear A.
Rewriting History : The decipherment of Linear A and a history of Egypto-Cretan relations | 33:44
Mark Cook | 5 subscribers | 258 views | April 27, 2023
Rewriting History : The decipherment of Linear A and a history of Egypto-Cretan relations | 33:44 | Mark Cook | 5 subscribers | 258 views | April 27, 2023

(Excerpt) Read more at youtube.com ...


TOPICS: History; Science; Travel
KEYWORDS: accountant; accounting; australia; catastrophism; charteraccountant; egypt; epigraphyandlanguage; godsgravesglyphs; lineara; minoans
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Cook, Mark. Rewriting History: The Decipherment of Linear A and a History of Egypto-Cretan Relations in the Middle and Late Bronze Ages. Author-published. Pp. 452. ISBN 978-0-646-86541-6.

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1 posted on 05/23/2023 8:00:12 AM PDT by SunkenCiv
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Transcript
0:00·hello we are here today to talk to Mark cook about his new book rewriting
0:06·history the decipherment of linear a and a history of egypto cretan relations in
0:12·the middle and late bronze ages in his bookmark claimed to have deciphered
0:17·linear a a Bronze Age script that was previously undeciphered so Mark welcome hi Jerry thanks for
0:24·having me so to start off with can you tell us what is or rather what was linear a and what was it used for well
0:31·linear a was a Bronze Age script it was used on Crete and
0:38·some of the Aegean Islands but mainly Crete from what the archeology tells us
0:43·um again from the archeology it's believed it was used from the middle Bronze Age so around the year 1800 BC
0:51·up until the late Bronze Age in the mid 15th century and then its use
0:59·has been thought abruptly stopped it was succeeded by Linear B
1:04·imaginatively titled both of these linear a linear B but it was um succeeded by Linear B an early form of
1:12·Greek the first written form of Greek um but I mean one of the things that as we
1:19·might discuss one of the things in my book is that actually I don't think linear a stopped being used quite like
1:25·that I think it continued in parallel with Linear B for some time at least
1:30·um as to what it was used for uh from the fines it's mainly administrative use
1:38·um so this was used most of the fines there from clay tablets that were wet clay sort of
1:45·mobile phone size broadly people would incise things in there they'd record
1:51·things so it's counting things basically inventories
1:57·and other similar things and you know they in size in the clay they'd use it
2:03·write it down in the permanent record which would be on parchment or papyrus
2:08·and then wipe down the clay and then they'd use it again um but what happened though is that the
2:13·building that stored these clay tablets caught fire the building was destroyed
2:20·and the tablets were fired in the process and presuming the permanent record was nearby that was also
2:25·destroyed not that would have survived necessarily until now um but yeah the tablets were fired and like
2:32·Pottery um had been preserved and you believe that you have deciphered it so in your
2:38·book you conclude that linear a is Egyptian written in shorthand so talk us
2:44·through that that's right um I think it's fair to say though that will surprise most if not all people who are
2:52·familiar with this that's quite unexpected indeed it would be so tell us
2:57·how you did it well I suppose there are two things really um firstly and it sounds obvious
3:04·um follow the evidence you know um I try to approach this without any preconceptions
3:11·um I didn't really want my views on the subjects be clouded by
3:17·what other people had written they thought and
3:22·at the end of the day it sort of struck me that yes some very clever people have looked
3:27·at this um but they've all failed and they haven't deciphered it so I I should
3:35·not put much sway in um or much stock in what they had to say
3:41·I had to really look at this afresh secondly um
3:46·and I suppose you and I know this from the the corporate world
3:52·there's a problem the team gets together there's a brainstorming session um and no idea is is too stupid so when
4:00·I and I must eventually had some pretty stupid ideas at the start of this but um when I
4:06·approach this I tried not to Discount anything um
4:12·to start with you know and that goes back to the evidence follow the evidence but you know cast The Net wide what
4:18·might this be and and then see really where the evidence took you
4:23·indeed indeed and I suppose as regards following the evidence
4:30·um what has survived of linear a the majority of want to survive these these
4:36·clay tablets this is this is accounting information something was being recorded and values were being recorded against
4:43·those things um and it sort of struck me as odd that
4:49·really those that have looked at this previously have been linguists
4:56·writing saying whereas you know I don't think an accountant had ever looked at this uh
5:02·and and that really struck me as is quite odd that makes sense I suppose irrespective of language one set of
5:09·accounts in one language is a set of accounts in another right and that was a that was a big help
5:15·um as I progressed certain things jumped out of me but
5:20·it struck me when I I started off at the very start of this project that there
5:25·were some fundamental questions that that couldn't be answered that actually were quite important so what was what
5:32·was the thing on these clay tablets that had survived that was recorded in the greatest numbers
5:39·um what might that therefore be I really really sort of fundamental questions that
5:45·I mean maybe because I'm an accountant I looked at it that way but
5:50·it seemed it seemed odd it just seemed odd that this this hadn't been tackled that way before as I
5:58·say as I as I progressed with my analysis certain things jumped out at me and that led to where it led to
6:04·um but but that was the start but for the purposes of this video um and you know you and I could talk
6:11·about accounts and that would be quite boring I think for the viewer
6:16·um I think going back to and I keep going back to follow the evidence
6:22·um I think they're really three key pieces of evidence that
6:27·um are really worth discussing now and setting the scene and that will really help people
6:34·watching this the most of course of course so set the scene for us well first and foremost
6:40·it's it's been observed and this is long-standing that linear a
6:45·symbols look like hieroglyphs now um I want you to
6:52·put that in the back of your mind as we're discussing the next thing
6:58·um we'll come back to that in a moment but but that you know they look like hieroglyphs so that's the first thing
7:05·next is a piece of evidence from Egypt it's called The Golden Bowl of general
7:11·duty general duty was a general in the army of the Egyptian pharaoh
7:18·sutmost III who ruled in the 15th century BC and the polls inscription as you can see
7:25·it on the rim here says that he was governor of the islands in the midst of the sea
7:33·these were the Aegean islands and included Crete so that's obviously quite
7:39·an important piece of evidence and then thirdly and finally there's a tomb in Egypt of
7:47·one of most III's viziers so one of his prime ministers
7:52·that has paintings and captions recording cretan princes Chiefs that have heard of
8:00·that most III's achievements and those would be his military conquests he conquered a large part of Syria and the
8:08·Levant coming to Thanos III and asking to enter into a treaty relationship with him
8:17·and we know that ultimately it was his General he became governor of
8:23·Crete and the Aegean Islands certain of the Aegean Islands so I think this was a treaty of
8:28·accession Crete and those islands in the Aegean namely those that had been the minoan
8:35·empire became part of the Egyptian Empire and the picture
8:42·here is of those Creed and Chiefs bringing
8:47·their tribute and has this been appreciated before uh
8:52·why would Crete have done this uh no no it hasn't and um I mean the first historian Herodotus
8:59·he wrote in the 5th Century BC so a thousand years after the events we're
9:04·talking about he refers to the Minoans losing their Fleet it was on taking part
9:11·in an expedition and on the way back to Crete it was destroyed in a storm
9:16·and I think after this the Minoans couldn't protect themselves from their neighbors
9:23·so they had to seek the protection of Egypt and the treaty that they entered
9:29·into they asked to enter into um and then they did enter into with the
9:36·Egyptian king the Pharaohs that most III was a treaty of accession so the minoan Empire became
9:43·part of the Egyptian Empire but so haven't historians put two and two
9:48·together then I think I think the problem is to do with the evidence that has survived what is known of the
9:57·military campaigns of something else III comes from a record that was inscribed on the walls
10:04·of the Temple of Amun in Karnak in southern Egypt and they're very detailed but there's no
10:11·there's no record of fatmost III conquering
10:17·owning Crete and I and I think historians have
10:23·taken this at face value and
10:28·really need to consider this again I mean I I put forward my views in my book
10:36·um I mean the obvious thing that jumps out is in the space where the Third campaign
10:43·should be is a depiction of the Flora and Fauna of
10:48·Syria um and you know this is this is a king who campaigns every year and all of a sudden
10:56·you know there's this this is odd indeed well what I what I think happened here
11:03·um rather than the Pharaoh having some sort of Gap year is that Egypt lost
11:09·Crete later on um I actually think it was I thought most the third son a minute II who lost
11:17·the island um early in his reign uh and whereas there was a record here
11:23·of Crete and its submission to the Egyptian Empire um for the sake of
11:30·amenitech II and his successes sensibilities I mean you couldn't you
11:35·couldn't have on the wall the Crete had asked to become part of the Egyptian Empire and then it had been lost this
11:42·was just the Future King could not have that I think the record was removed and the
11:49·Flora and Fauna of Syria replaced it and you have this rather odd
11:55·sort of it is not the Third campaign that was there originally and you have all these
12:01·military campaigns with this very old that's called the botanical gardens it's
12:06·not most the Third it's just entirely out of place okay so where does this all get us and how does
12:14·that relate to linear a quite right back to back to linear a
12:20·um but but let's just take stock of what what we've discussed so we know that for
12:25·a period of time Crete was owned by Egypt and we know that a scripts in use at
12:32·this time looked like hieroglyphs I I don't think it
12:38·too far-fetched to consider that actually this could be a form of Egyptian
12:45·and this is and that's why I wanted to run through that before we get into the nitty-gritty of
12:51·um of linear a um I should say that linear a was used on Crete before
12:58·this and that that muddies the waters somewhat the evidence is
13:06·that it was mainly During the period that Egypt owned create the linear a was
13:12·used but it was used before that I think you would expect that though I
13:17·mean this is from the pattern of fines what has survived and I think you would expect
13:23·linear AIDS have been used more when Egypt owned Crete because you know
13:29·there's the organs of government there's the administration there's more records being created
13:34·um so I I think that's understandable and you do see a peek in fines in this
13:40·period when flat most III would have been King but 80 of the clay tablets
13:46·but it was used before and I think what is happening there is that well we know Crete wasn't owned by Egypt so I think
13:53·it's probably most logical to um conclude based on what we do know
14:00·that these uh there were Egyptian expatriate
14:05·Traders on the island and they used linear a
14:10·now why would they use linear a and why would it be based on hieroglyphs because
14:16·the day-to-day scripts in Egypt was hieratic that was the
14:22·you know the script of Commerce what things would be written in day to day um hieroglyphs was
14:28·for inscriptions on Temple walls such as we've discussed or for ceremonial inscriptions on scarabs
14:37·um it was not day to day but I think think about where these Egyptians were
14:42·they were overseas um in a territory that was not Egyptian and I think for that reason they chose a
14:51·script that would have been less well known to the locals if any cretans had had any dealings with Egyptians
14:59·I think it would have been hieratic that the cretans would have seen they wouldn't have seen hieroglyphs and yet the Egyptians were familiar with that so
15:05·I think I think the Egyptians came up with a script that used hieroglyphs specifically so
15:12·that the local cretans couldn't see in detail what was going on it kept them
15:18·Beyond purview of the cretans
15:24·and then of course as we've seen its use continued after Egypt became
15:32·uh well Creeds became part of the Egyptian Empire and I suppose it goes back to uh
15:39·old adage if it ain't broke don't fix it so you know the the Egyptians there used
15:45·this overnight they've become colonists rather than expatriate Traders
15:50·um they're just going to carry on doing the same old thing but they're also going to do some more
15:56·stuff I assist in form part of the government the organs
16:02·of government the administration okay so so that sets the scene but what
16:09·is next regards linear a then well the next thing was to go back to the evidence and
16:15·linear a we've we've already seen we've already said that it's characters they look like
16:21·hieroglyphs so let's assume they are hieroglyphs what is written in linear is
16:28·it self-evidently doesn't spell words in Egyptian so something else is going on here
16:34·and some of the linear a characters are rotated versions of
16:40·the hieroglyphs that they appear to be related to and this I think is really important
16:46·because if you look at the later Thousand Years Later the Greco-Roman
16:51·form of shorthand that came into use the letters that words were abbreviated
16:58·to um could be rotated so I I think you know we have we have
17:05·some very good evidence here that we are dealing with a form of shorthand
17:11·and again has this been appreciated before again no I think because uh the dots
17:18·hadn't been joined and in particular hadn't been appreciated that Egypt owned
17:23·Crete for this period of time um it just hadn't been conceived that
17:28·this could be Egyptian and as regards being shorthand as I said
17:33·shorthand wasn't known for another thousand years so no so applying this
17:40·later method of shorthand allows you to translate the tablets basically yes but
17:46·with the slight Nuance that there needs to be some logic in the layout of the
17:53·text so for example dates at the start um total labeled as such at the end
18:00·where there's items recorded and values recorded against them
18:06·um things that are in some instances labeled as male and in other instances
18:12·not labeled as male therefore female you you can
18:18·infer that that's an animal um but it's shorthand so I mean the analogy
18:25·I use is a shopping list imagine your better half gives you a shopping list
18:31·and it says a 10. or a could be apples or it could be short for avocados
18:40·and I mean you would know what it stood for because you might have been given the
18:45·list before and you might have got it wrong it means hold off and uh and therefore you know that a stands for
18:51·apples but someone in three and a half thousand years when they see their shopping list written in shorthand
18:58·um not even knowing it's a shopping list would would struggle so
19:05·it's knowing the context is and inferring as much of the context as
19:10·you can from the layout the logic of the layout is is important there are two
19:17·examples that I I'm going to just give briefly for the viewers now both are
19:23·dates appearing at the start of tablets just to demonstrate how this shorthand
19:29·works and how we go from higher lists to linearail so first we look at tablet ht7a
19:37·HT meaning that this was found at Hagia triada in the South Central of the
19:44·island of Crete apologies for my no doubt very incorrect pronunciation
19:50·and we have fourth month um and those are the two Egyptian words
19:55·written in hieroglyphs there um now of course the hieroglyphs have been slightly modified to become linear
20:02·a symbols as regards to the first word there horizontal lines elsewhere in the linear
20:10·a corpus they used to count units of 10 and circles are used to count units of
20:16·100 so with the linear a symbol used to represent the word fourth
20:22·the dashes of hieroglyphs z4b and z4b are put
20:28·inside the circle of hieroglyph w24 to become the linear a symbol
20:37·for the symbol representing the word month The Arc of the hieroglyph is
20:44·horizontally compressed so that it becomes something of an inverted V with curved arms
20:50·the point of this I think is so that it takes up less room horizontally
20:56·and this is similar to the rotation of our other hieroglyphs that are rotated
21:02·um again I think so that they took up less room horizontally so we have a common characteristic
21:09·amongst many of the linear a symbols and how they're derived from
21:15·their corresponding hieroglyphs um so why would why would this be I
21:21·think this was probably because like our paper today the tablets were taller than they were
21:29·wide whereas the buildings that hieroglyph hieroglyphs were used on were usually wider than they were tall
21:38·anyway to get another example here we see tablet ht1a the first two symbols representing
21:46·third month so here we see the same process where the ordinal but the word for month is
21:51·different right that's right the Egyptians had a number of ways of writing the same words here the Scribe
21:58·has abbreviated a different form of the same word and the Greco-Roman method of shorthand
22:04·was one where a word could be abbreviated to the first the last or a distinctive
22:10·letter from the middle of a word here he has chosen to do the last of these well
22:16·that seems quite fiddly presumably the the word that was abbreviated and the
22:22·aragath that it was abbreviated to was driven by the experience of the Scribe
22:29·I think so um be that different departments within the institution that's creating
22:36·um these records will be that different professional backgrounds that the Scribe or different geographical Origins it
22:42·describes back in back in Egypt um here though we can we we can be certain
22:50·I think that um these two tablets were written by two
22:55·different scribes and I think that's important um because once you look at the Corpus
23:01·as a whole I think you can infer the number of people working in within within that
23:07·organization within that Institution and I think it was quite big I mean as I
23:13·say in the book it's a it's an Egyptian temple um so yeah I think it I think it's quite
23:19·big um a modern analogy would be from the world of accounting that we know
23:25·um one accountant might say debtors and another accountant might say receivables and
23:32·as you and I would know you can infer something of the the background of those
23:38·two accountants as a result the differing background and I think I think we see the same thing
23:44·affecting linear a here um we obviously know more about our own
23:50·Society than Egyptian Society so what we can extrapolate from that is is less but
23:57·nonetheless I think I think as I say this is this is what is what is evident in the linear a records
24:04·yeah indeed we do but this is quite complex though um it was but this wasn't how I got my
24:12·first break um there is one tablet that survives that is is
24:19·really vital to all of this um and it's tablet ht123 a this tablet is important because
24:28·using some logic and algebra we can work out the value of the fraction symbols
24:34·used on the tablet and noting that one of those symbols is actually has a value
24:40·of zero we can see that two categories of the items recorded appear in the ratio of
24:48·four to one and and consistently do so this is really important because in the
24:55·Linear B tablets this same ratio appears it appears when sheep well Rams and will
25:02·respectively are recorded and for every four Rams that are recorded
25:09·and it's Rams that are counted because they're a proxy for The Wider flock size which could be many hundreds of U's to
25:16·one ram for every four Rams then the flock owner
25:22·would owe a single unit of wool in tax I mean this this was a big unit of wall
25:29·think like the size of a warehouse but that was how this tax was calculated
25:35·this appears in Linear B and here it appears in linear a because even
25:42·though the government of the island had changed from as it now turns out Egyptian to Greek
25:50·the mechanics of the tax being levied did not and it's also important because from
25:56·this mathematical relationship that's evident we can work out the meaning of the symbols representing Rams wool grand
26:05·total New Year's Day the date that the tax was assessed and from this you can show if more was
26:13·required after the dates that we just went through that this was shorthand by
26:19·reference to the original words as they were written in hieroglyphs yeah I find
26:24·that quite fascinating uh well for us accountants perhaps but um and hopefully for ancient historians too we sure we
26:32·shall see yeah and I should say to viewers that chapter 2 of your book is available on a
26:39·link below this video so that viewers can go through all of it in their own time that's right yes this is in chapter
26:46·two of my book um most historians aren't forensic
26:52·accountants um but I don't think they need to be now this this analysis has been done
26:58·um and it's it's set out there it's merely a question of of you know following through the logic following
27:03·through the algebra um for those that tackle it I think I
27:08·hope uh it will be relatively straightforward yeah and I guess as a forensic
27:13·accountant you had during this very long process a lot of aha moments
27:20·but just finally maybe share with us something that was really
27:25·great like you had this moment this is it
27:30·um one thing that probably is interesting um though is that the institutions that created these tablets Egyptian temples
27:38·um the evidence is as is set out in my book um the evidence from the tablets is that
27:45·they acted very much in this period during the reign of that most the third as agents of the state so
27:53·they were like in Egypt they were involved in um
27:58·aspects of the administration of government so we see that with the tax records that are the the Rams
28:05·the wall this is a this is a record of the taxes that are being paid and this is why there's an Egyptian temple
28:12·um that is compiling those records um and one final thing however
28:20·um and we've got some pictures on this and and this let's go back to the the evidence you know I've said it a few
28:26·times always go back to the evidence and perhaps one of my
28:32·favorite paintings of all time it's called the um flotilla fresco
28:37·and it was found on the island of Santorini which is I think the closest at Gian Island to Crete
28:45·and was part of the Milan Empire and
28:51·archaeologists they found this this Fresco um
28:56·and it sort of puzzled them as to what this this actually was so let's have a quick look so as I say I find this one
29:04·of the most amazing pictures um and it's really interesting just how
29:09·accurate it is um but surprisingly to date
29:15·historians just haven't appreciated what this shows they haven't known the port
29:20·of origin on the left-hand side then there's this flotillera ships going from left to right and they haven't
29:26·identified the port on the right hand side um but the
29:32·the evidence is here in the painting and it is pretty clear the port on the left
29:38·the port of origin is the Egyptian Naval Base at Peru nepher in my best pronunciation apologies again
29:47·um and here you can see a map of the island itself the port is on
29:54·and then the branch of the Nile that's to its left and then the geographical features that
30:01·surround it and you know these are all represented in this painting this this was someone
30:07·who I mean this is not a view um necessarily this is perhaps drawn
30:14·from a map um but this is this is someone who had knowledge of the geography of this port
30:24·what perhaps is a view that could have been seen I think probably was um is the port on the right hand side
30:32·the destination Port which is katsanvas which is the port of the minoan capital
30:38·on Crete which was canossus as with perinifer and the geographical
30:44·features surrounding that Port is portrayal
30:50·clearly pointing to that being the port of origin legit the geography here
30:57·um also guides us and if you look to the left hand side there are two buildings
31:03·there's on the horizon on the hilltop and we're now in Hilltop sanctuary and
31:10·then in front of it as a separate structure halfway up the hill there's a palace structure
31:17·and they're in a they're in a direct line together so this Vista where could it have come
31:23·from it's obviously offshore and I don't think it would have been a boat I think it would have been an
31:29·island and the only place that you could see a
31:34·Hilltop Sanctuary a minoan Hilltop Sanctuary with a minoan Palace in front of it leads out to sea
31:42·to an island is the mount yuktas Hilltop sanctuary the
31:48·Palace of canossus in front of it and off the coast the island of deer
31:55·and if you'd have been on deer at this time looking to the right of that axis
32:01·of Mount uttas and canossus looking to the right of that you would
32:06·have seen the port of cats ambus but as nobody noticed this before
32:12·no because of the floor and fauna in the painting which are from the Aegean people have thought both the origin and
32:19·destination were in the Aegean but like the early paintings of the colony of New
32:24·South Wales in Australia for example which were made to look like England
32:29·to appeal to their Market audience back in England I think the same thing is
32:35·happening here um also I think I think this is propaganda
32:41·um showing the aegeans that they and the Egyptians were cut from the same cloth
32:46·because the painting shows the Journey of that most III and I think it's here in the
32:53·Central yellow or Golden Boat um coming to Crete to the minoan capsule at
33:01·canossus to accept the minoan Empire's submission um to become part of the Egyptian Empire
33:08·I mean if they if they took selfies in the late Bronze Age I mean this is it
33:14·well thanks a lot mark this has been really fascinating and I wish you well with your book
33:20·and just a reminder that chapter 2 of Mark's book is available in the link below in which Mark uses a detailed
33:28·accounting analysis to prove that linear a is indeed Egyptian shorthand written
33:35·in hieroglyphs and also some book reviews that have recently been
33:40·published thanks for watching

2 posted on 05/23/2023 8:00:44 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (NeverTrumpers are Republicans the same way Liz Cheney is a Republican.)
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https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=linear+a


3 posted on 05/23/2023 8:01:37 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (NeverTrumpers are Republicans the same way Liz Cheney is a Republican.)
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To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; 1ofmanyfree; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; 31R1O; ...

4 posted on 05/23/2023 8:01:57 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (NeverTrumpers are Republicans the same way Liz Cheney is a Republican.)
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To: SunkenCiv

I thought the Philistines were the Cretans............


5 posted on 05/23/2023 8:03:38 AM PDT by Red Badger (Homeless veterans camp in the streets while illegal aliens are put up in hotels.....................)
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To: 75thOVI; Abathar; agrace; aimhigh; Alice in Wonderland; AnalogReigns; AndrewC; aragorn; ...
One of *those* topics.



6 posted on 05/23/2023 8:05:06 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (NeverTrumpers are Republicans the same way Liz Cheney is a Republican.)
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To: Red Badger

That was one theory and may be partially true. The Philistines if they are truly the descendants of the “Sea Peoples” are likely more then one group. I’ve seen theories that some came from Sicily and even further west.


7 posted on 05/23/2023 8:06:50 AM PDT by Reily (!!)
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To: Red Badger

There’s an OT reference to the Philistines’ origin being Caphtor, but Caphtor refers to Cyprus, not Crete.

https://www.varchive.org/ce/baalbek/caphtor.htm


8 posted on 05/23/2023 8:07:13 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (NeverTrumpers are Republicans the same way Liz Cheney is a Republican.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Yes, they stopped in Cyprus to refuel.................


9 posted on 05/23/2023 8:08:43 AM PDT by Red Badger (Homeless veterans camp in the streets while illegal aliens are put up in hotels.....................)
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To: Reily

The Sea Peoples are a reference to the Greeks.


10 posted on 05/23/2023 8:08:43 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (NeverTrumpers are Republicans the same way Liz Cheney is a Republican.)
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To: SunkenCiv

The Mycenaeans?


11 posted on 05/23/2023 8:15:17 AM PDT by Reily (!!)
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To: SunkenCiv

The phoneticians?


12 posted on 05/23/2023 8:16:41 AM PDT by z3n (Kakistocracy)
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To: Reily

So they are saying they are “one people” now?
Greek mainland (and general Aegean Sea area) in origin and not also western Mediterranean?


13 posted on 05/23/2023 8:19:35 AM PDT by Reily (!!)
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To: SunkenCiv

I know you understand it all, but it is linear A to me


14 posted on 05/23/2023 8:24:00 AM PDT by bert ( (KWE. NP. N.C. +12) Juneteenth is inequality day )
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To: Reily

The Sea Peoples are in effect a modern invention and kludge to solve problems with the conventional pseudochronology. They left no cultural traces anywhere (such as characteristic burials, weapons, human remains, writing, and most curiously, ships) yet supposedly swept across the entire eastern Mediterranean.

In most places, the Mycenaeans took over from the Minoans. There was contact between Egypt and the Aegean no later than the late Middle Kingdom. If this guy’s on the right track, it shows that the Minoan-era Cretans adopted/adapted a script system from Egypt, rather than showing conquest or colonization of the island the New Kingdom Egyptians.


15 posted on 05/23/2023 8:32:09 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (NeverTrumpers are Republicans the same way Liz Cheney is a Republican.)
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To: bert

LOL


16 posted on 05/23/2023 8:32:43 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (NeverTrumpers are Republicans the same way Liz Cheney is a Republican.)
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To: z3n

Dr. Philistine established a group therapy for people sensitive to their own unusually tall stature.


17 posted on 05/23/2023 8:36:26 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (NeverTrumpers are Republicans the same way Liz Cheney is a Republican.)
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To: SunkenCiv

I knew about this part “.. Mycenaeans took over from the Minoans. There was contact between Egypt and the Aegean no later than the late Middle Kingdom. ..”. I also knew there was a physical evidence problem regarding the “Sea Peoples”.
Didn’t know the whole “Sea Peoples” thing had been discarded.

Other then pottery is there any physical connection between the Myceneans & the Philistines? Similarity of tombs, temples etc.?


18 posted on 05/23/2023 8:42:59 AM PDT by Reily (!!)
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To: Reily

The Sea Peoples thing should be discarded, but plenty of academics still cling to it like a dingleberry to an ass hair.

The pottery of Philistia is indeed Greek or Greek influenced, while some of the personal names are Hurrian.

Giving Goliath His Due: New Archaeological Light on the Philistines [review] / Neal Bierling; foreword by Paul L. Maier.
review by Ralph E. Hendrix
https://digitalcommons.andrews.edu/auss/vol32/iss1/5/

https://www.amazon.com/Giving-Goliath-His-Due-Archaeological/dp/0801010187

https://www.amazon.com/Philistines-Giving-Goliath-Marco-Monographs/dp/0971468354

[for an earlier post, mostly for me]
http://www.minoancrete.com/platanos.htm


19 posted on 05/23/2023 8:51:48 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (NeverTrumpers are Republicans the same way Liz Cheney is a Republican.)
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https://omniglot.com/writing/lineara.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_A

related:

https://omniglot.com/writing/cypriot.htm

https://omniglot.com/writing/linearb.htm

https://omniglot.com/writing/phaistos.htm

index at Omniglot:

https://omniglot.com/writing/index.htm


20 posted on 05/23/2023 9:03:42 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (NeverTrumpers are Republicans the same way Liz Cheney is a Republican.)
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