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Thank you for posting this.

It offers a fresh, very realistic view of many legal hispanic immigrants, many of whose families have lived here long before the US existed. We could learn a few lessons from their level of conservatism.

They also deserve a column that doesn't completely dehumanize them.

She didn't force any school to have spanish-speaking teachers.....she ended up speaking purely English. She assimilated.

I work with a gal who jumped the border to go to Amerian school in 1993 in TX.

Of course she is legal now, but she speaks no Spanish at all. There are exceptions to every rule.

Do you have an actual link to that terrorist website?

Perhaps you misunderstood me. I would like to see that website. Do you have the link?

Where did you find that terrorist quote? Is that from a website? I would like to see the link.

Just as we have dehumanized muslims/arabs, they have dehumanized us as a group of perverted slobs. All of this makes it more acceptable to mass murder our people, and vice/versa. (Sorry, I know this has little to do with Justin and Janet....Oh well, it is more interesting anyway.)

Poor taste, terribly stupid idea on all fronts (literally), and an insult to the public. Who thought we wanted to see another half naked Jackson? Pathetic judgement.

Probably Jackson and Timberlake will admit they didn't want to do it...that it was in their contract and HAD to.

This is why I hate TV. Some guy behind a desk who thinks that the US is full of uneducated slobs who love to see this kind of Britney Spears half naked teen angst put to terrible music.

It is either a terrible insulting misjudgement on the minds of Americans, or it is a sad truth about what the people who watch tv really like. I would hate to know either way.

Hhahaaaaa.....Lets all vote democrat....heh heh heh.

Mexico needs to start some serious social service campaigns.

I have dealt with the federal immigration offices down there and the municipal civil registries. On the federal level, they are understaffed, and so distanced from the people.

In the Civil Registry, the people there are a delightful bunch of down-to-earth people who are true civil servants in every respect, even in the midst of such awful surroundings. My experiences at that level in CDJuarez were fantastic, and will always remember and appreciate their attitude and orientation towards duty to their community.

Their enforcement divisions need a SERIOUS overhaul. For this reason, we never drove. We took taxis or walked. God forbid I should get pulled over by a cop down there.

Those streets are so messed up...If you have been there, you will know what I am saying. If you drive north down a 5 lane road, the right 2 lanes go north, the 2 lanes to your left go south, then the farthest left lane goes north too.

The strangest thing is that I really loved something about ciudad Juarez, and can't wait to go back, regardless of all the terrible stuff. I guess I like a little risk with my vacations?

Luckily, my husband's poverty took place in a town with 65 degree weather year-round, a safe, well-kept neighborhood with strong religious beliefs, and generally good morals. There were no whorehouses there either which is rare. As far as taking a neighborhood to raise a kid, he swears by it. He was lucky. His poor upbringing was also surrounded with people who cared, and he turned out strong and caring. Kids in his situation in an inner city are exposed to corruption before they know how to understand it, and learn all kinds of sneaky ways to get what they want.

About the police in CJ: There is so much really scary stuff in that town. I don't have a link right now, but a while back there was a bus driver who worked the busline from the maquilladoras to the residential areas at night. He took the female factory workers home after work. If there was only one woman left in the bus, he would drive into a deserted area, saying that his bus was breaking down. He would then let on some of his buddies, they would rape her, and murder her, then dump her body. Just awful stuff. Then these bodies that were just found supposedly killed by police officers. What a mess.

Again, as far as poverty being imported, we have poverty here, and not just hispanics. He is disgusted with any government who doesn't do something to prevent homelessness and especially hunger for kids. Whether they come from another country, or are american citizens, he hates it. He is critical of all governments who ignore their hungry. I am a little less sympathetic about it, and shouldn't be. I believe that the responsibility of hunger resides in the family, then in the community.

My adopted little sister was living in a CAR when her parents were put in jail for shoplifting. They were starving as well. Poor white trash Irish family. It was not the fault of some distant hispanic immigrant.

There are many apartments near where I live that house thousands of illegal hispanics. They mix in and don't cause problems, with the exception of a drunk driving incident, or a living in their car incident. On the other hand, I know a white american government worker who lives out of his car. I would love to blame all of the poverty on just one nationality, but I see it everywhere. There are bad people in every race and religion. That is why it is so important to not dehumanize one group. There is beauty in all people, and just because they don't have as much money or food as we do, is no reason to not want to see them.

One thing that I have noticed here is that once an illegal comes here, they try to stick together, but the competition between them becomes so fierce....I have seen many do some really underhanded things done...out of fear that their job will be taken by another illegal, or that they won't be found by immigration...

My apologies. I have seen so much of both sides, and am ON the side against most immigration in general, but after experiencing and understanding VALID points from both sides, it is difficult for me to mix the two into a concrete solution for our country. All I can say is that once it comes together, I will send the idea to President, because it'll be a great one!!!!

I know what you are saying, but I do read a lot of comments for people who just make general statements about hispanics in general. Although my husband refuses to live in an area where there are many hispanics, I still find myself trying to curb his prejudice as well. He is in the process of becoming a citizen...legally.

As far as fear of poverty affecting us, he is very leery of impoverished areas...moreso than I am. We spent about a month in Ciudad Juarez. I loved walking around town. The weather was beautiful, but he wouldn't let go of my hand, and made us walk unnaturally fast, to avoid anyone who might want to mug us. He also refused to go out after dark. He is extremely disgusted with why there are poor people in the world in general. He gives money to poor kids in many other countries, as well as Mexico and the US. He has no pity for poor adults, if they are capable of working, but kids have no choice. On the other hand, we have so many poor homeless white kids, and can't deport their parents. Tough situation.

Funny you should mention class; We spoke about this a couple months ago. My husband said that if you were lower class, or "poor", it meant that you lived in the street, had no home, and no job.

If you were middle class, that didn't necessarily mean you ate from day to day even if you worked a lot. Middle class also meant that your floor was dirt...no carpet, no tile, and crappy plumbing. Maybe you would have a car.

If you were wealthy, you had servants, and a detached house with tile on the floors. In his town, he was from a lower middle class family who for about 5 years was so destitute they had no food. Luckily, there were neighbors who would donate some beans or tortillas to them, but when his mother had a stroke, and father left when he was a kid, he had to drop out of elementary school to work to support the family.

But those years he was in school, there was no income. This is why he is such an advocate for prevention of poverty and hunger. He luckily had the brains to grow up well, and find mentors at an early age.

I suppose I didn't explain myself completely. His sisters only have one or two kids. We would like to have many. However, we are both excellent with kids, and regardless of the nationality of my husband, I have always wanted at least 3 kids (or more). Must be the German in me.

You are right. Times have changed. How easy is it these days to start a farm? (not easy)Most farms are going out of business. The best an immigrant can do now is be a migrant worker on a huge corporate farm. But as far as colonizing the world, the hispanics are lumped in there with the rest of us. Germanic, Irish, or otherwise.

I have a hispanic coworker who grew up in Mexico, and used to take a bus over the border to go to school here in the US. That would make most Americans BOIL.

Her grandfather (a US citizen) then brought her over several years ago. She is now 21, and can't speak a work of Spanish. Every story is different. She took advantage of american schools back when they refused to teach in spanish. Now she has completely assimilated.

I just don't know how all of this can be cheaply taken on. Do you remember the member nomasmojarras? Well, I have been to Ciudad Juarez Mexico....a real pit....and have seen now boths sides of the immigration situation. It still shouldn't happen, but I think our government looks at it as cash flow. Sure, we are losing billions of $$ when illegals send money over the border. BUT if we give them a worker program, the same thing will happen. If we hire 300,000 americans to daily monitor 30 illegal guestworkers movements around the country (that should cover the illegals that are ALREADY in the country...not the ones that plan on coming over), and these government workers make only $20,000 per year, that would equal the amount of money that is going over the border. So figure 6 billion a year to pay our employees, and 6 billion a year going over the border, plus the guest workers will be receiving some benefits, and will making possibly more money.

I suppose that could stimulate our economy.....yes, a lot of the money goes down to mexico, but I have seen known illegals buying $40,000 cars....that is 3 times more than what I can afford. It is still stimulating the economy.

I probably anger a lot of people because I contradict myself with praise for Bush's plan, and skepticism for the future of immigration control. But that is the reality. There is no one step that our government can take to control it. Finally Bush stepped up and started the debate. It needs to start now so we can fix things before the hispanic constituency is so huge that they will be able to vote their own advocates into office.

After all this, I have to agree that the majority of illegals don't plan to stay forever. They stay 3 years, go down to Mexico, come back, work some more. Bush's idea isn't that different from the illegals present schedule. Yes, there are many hispanic families growing. Not only for the anchor baby program (which should be stopped NOW), but because hispanics are extremely family oriented. It isn't always "colonization" that hispanics have in mind...it is an old desire to have many kids.

My husband has the same feelings about large families. He has 3 sisters who only have one or 2 kids each...they are NOT for having big families. So every time you or I say something against illegal immigrants, there will always be someone else that has a contradicting anecdote. Just as Americans are all individualistic, the rest of the world sees us as all the same, with the same goals (destructive).

So why should we be surprised that Americans think that all hispanics are all the same? That is one of the first steps in dehumanizing a group or a race, and I think we are all guilty of it. And as you know, dehumanizing is meant to lower any group of people so you are more justified in treating them badly.

Lastly...about the slaughters on the border...It would be interesting to know how many massacres occured outside the berlin wall, and that didn't last either. I see history repeating itself. All impoverished societies accumulate at the walls of the wealthy empires to try and grab onto the extra "crumbs" that fall onto their side. It has happened for thousands of years. Walls just make people want to tear them down. Difficult situation we are in.

I enjoyed hearing your opinions before, and I still do today. We gotta keep the conversation open, right?

Cool map...

Do you have one that shows actual illegal immigrant population? "hispanic origin" is a bit vague.

Does that site also have Germanic origin maps? That would be interesting to see. Or even how Germanic origin people spread out of Germany and all over Europe and the world. I guess I am one of those kids of crazy poor German immigrants who had to overpopulate the United States. (isn't that terrible? And they are still reproducing!)

Unfortunately, I have used all of your arguments before. I was known on this site as one of the loudest opponents to Mexican immigration, but have since realized that waving my fist does NOTHING. Your comments do not solve any problems. They just generate more hate. Kicking out all the illegals is not only impossible but will open a few other cans of worms. If you have some credible solutions, let's hear them instead of just throwing insults.

Not until SOMEONE thinks of some reasonable ideas, will anything get done. I thank president Bush for opening the dialogue, and can't wait to see where this debate goes. It can only help. Solutions won't come about until we can really find a feasible solution. Nothing important is ever easy; it just comes down to getting a PERMANENT solution to what we want without destroying everything around us, and not spending all our money on it.

First, I see your point. But at least Bush is attempting to put a dent in identifying most of the people already here.

As far as solving the terrorism problem, that issue needs to be addressed separately. As far as I know, none of the 911 hijackers were illegal Mexican migrant workers. They were here legally, thanks to the lack of the attention of immigration.

As far as stopping the illegal immigration, that would have to be another step. Making one move will never solve ALL of our problems...ever. But at least it is something....so far, nobody has done anything. An amnesty several years ago? Now there are more illegals, and THEY want an amnesty as well.

I agree with you...the plan doesn't solve every problem, but it isn't meant to. There has to be additional legislation on many points. In an election year, I think Bush is doing the best he can to help a serious problem for both sides without making more enemies internationally. I was shocked at his defense of immigrants, and admired his intent on making an important, albeit controversial situation where any decision will cause an uproar within even his own party. If anything, he has gotten people talking about what realistically be done. I don't see anything that he has mentioned being put into action for several years, after several changes, but this is a starting point to open dialogue. I would like to just kick everyone out and put up a wall like you, but that would cause other problems.

I would also like to hear how you would propose we remedy this problem. I don't believe it is easy, but starting conversation about it is the best thing.

You are so correct. It does have to do with the Mexican government. Sending Giuliani down there was a nice little start.

I agree. My husband is from Mexico, and refuses to live in California. He says there are too many Mexicans there. He believes that so many Mexicans....even the legal ones, have given Mexicans a bad name. You are right.