Matthew 18:20 - For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Posted on 09/23/2003 7:50:20 AM PDT by presidio9
No dancing in the aisles or applause in church, please, we're Catholic. And we'd prefer altar boys to altar girls.
Those are some of the warnings contained in the draft of a document the Vatican (news - web sites) is preparing to crack down on what it considers "liturgical abuses" of the mass, the focus of Roman Catholic worship.
According to the authoritative Italian Roman Catholic monthly magazine "Jesus," a draft document urges the faithful to notify their bishop or the Vatican to report suspected abuses.
The magazine released an advance text of the article which will feature in its October edition.
If issued in its draft form, the document, known as a directive, could have wide-ranging ramifications on some worship practices that have come into common use in many developed countries, particularly the United States and in western Europe.
According to the magazine, the draft says the use of girl altar servers should be avoided "unless there is a just pastoral cause" and that "priests should never feel obliged to seek girls for this function."
The Vatican in 1994 gave individual bishops the power to decide whether to allow altar girls in their dioceses. But some conservative Catholics are against altar girls, saying their presence has eroded a traditional recruiting ground for priests.
Traditionalists have also seen altar girls as a foot in the door to a female priesthood, which the church bans.
Italian media reported that the initial reaction to the draft, circulated to the world's bishops, has been negative and the document may have to be at least partially modified.
The draft document also discourages applause during masses and "dances inside the sacred building."
Ironically, Pope John Paul (news - web sites)'s sermons during masses, even those in St Peter's Basilica, are often interrupted by applause.
Some of the pope's masses in Rome and around the world have included dancing, particularly those celebrations marking Asian, African or Latin American events.
The document, drafted by two Vatican departments which oversee doctrine and liturgy, was ordered by the pope who will eventually have to approve a final version.
The draft also warns against the use of non-Biblical language during the mass, such as readings from poets.
It discourages the practice where the faithful receive the wafer and wine at communion.
Catholics believe Christ is present in the wafer and wine but the document says it is preferable just to receive the wafer.
"Self-service" communion is also frowned upon. This appeared to be a reference to the faithful taking the consecrated host directly from the chalice instead of receiving it on their tongue from the hand of a priest.
You are welcome. You seem to have a strong spirit (just from what I've read on this thread) I hope you get to peace and happiness
Aliska, you have been posting the same message on countless threads for longer than I can remember. Why? What is your purpose? We have all been sensitive to your "feelings" but YOU are manipulating everyone on this thread, seeking those who will commiserate with your self pity. You have posted the same stuff, over and over again, each time, dragging in new empathizers. What is your point? When will you do something about your life to turn it around? God helps those who help themselves. You need to seek out a new therapist. It seems that the one you have been seeing for more than a year now, has taken your money and returned nothing.
That sounds awfully Catholic. You sure you ain't one of them thar Papists?
;-}
The Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Blessed Sacrament is a central tenet of the Roman Catholic faith, which means that "a building is not just a building" to Catholics. This is why there are some traditions in Catholicism (the permanent presence of a sanctuary lamp, for example) that aren't found in other Christian denominations.
Let's not question her intent
Now, for her therapist, I think the therapist lady has issues, issues that cloud the theraspist's judgement. Your counsel on finding another one seems wise.
And I take the phrase from the Gospel of Matthew that "Peter is the rock upon whom I build my church" literally. But you and I believe in Jesus and the same triune God therefor I have no problems with you. Heck I wish progressive Catholics would go to the other side of the Tiber River.
P.S. I never said you "bashed" anyone, Catholics or otherwise.
It is also BANNED by the USCCB in the US.
When our Holy Father attended the canonization of St. Juan Diego in Mexico City, indigenous Indians danced. That made perfect sense to me., because it is native to their culture and part of the worship they have traditionally given to God. Note too, that the dance was done before the Mass.
Here in the US, liturgical dance, which is not part of our cultural heritage, has been banned for the obvious reasons given by the bishops.
Dance is not allowed whatsoever. The document Dance In The Liturgy contains a full explanation. To summarize:
"[In western culture] dancing is tied with love, with diversion, with profaneness, with unbridling of the senses: such dancing, in general, is not pure."
"For that reason it cannot be introduced into liturgical celebrations of any kind whatever: that would be to inject into the liturgy one of the most desacralized and desacralizing elements; and so it would be equivalent to creating an atmosphere of profaneness which would easily recall to those present and to the participants in the celebration worldly places and situations."
The Bishops have expressly prohibited any and all forms of dancing in the Liturgy.
NATIONAL CONFERENCE OF CATHOLIC BISHOPS (BISHOPS' COMMITTEE on the LITURGY) NEWSLETTER. APRIL/MAY 1982.
"FROM THESE DIRECTIVES, from the NATIONAL CONFERENCE of CATHOLIC BISHOPS, all dancing, (ballet, children's gesture as dancing, the clown liturgy) are not permitted to be 'introduced into liturgical celebrations of any kind whatever.'"
There are several parishes in my diocese that have introduced liturgical dance and the bishop has remained silent. The Diocesan Office for Divine Worship and Liturgy noted that the bishops authorized its "study". However, they also stated that any study would have to comply with a standard; they have NEVER established that standard.
Liturgical dance is authorized outside of the liturgy, and NEVER in church.
Women dancing down the aisles wearing skimpy clothes, and with breasts bouncing up and down, is profanity, especially in front of The Tabernacle. To teach this to children is even more disturbing. These same children are taught about sin in their Religious Education classes. Not following the directives of Holy Mother church is a sin and yet these children are being taught that sin, in this instance, is okay. How can that be?
LOL.
Stop it wardaddy, I'm LMAO, over that lame sign. The closest Prot church (the one I pass by) is much less liberal. I enjoy their signs :-)
To figure out whether I should stay or get out, hoping I will meet someone who feels like I do. The only people I know who feel like I do got out. I didn't want to have to do that, and if I do, it won't be because I want inclusive language or want to be a priest or any of the other things you accuse me of wanting. I've been on your side until so many of you heaped coals on my head.
I wouldn't wish what I have been through on any of you.
Matthew 18:20 - For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
Not trying to convert or start a Holy War or nothing, BUT this is what I go by as a Catholic.
Seems to me people argue amongst themselves to this day over a phrase our Lord said would be controversial.
This is a sticking point between my wife and me. This would include my youngest sister.
There are some black congregations in which I simply refuse to go.
Why is that controversial?
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