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Catholic priest suspended in Germany after heading communion service at Lutheran church
AP Wire .. direct feed | July 17, 2003 | GEIR MOULSON

Posted on 07/17/2003 9:33:11 AM PDT by NYer

BERLIN (AP) _ A Roman Catholic priest based in Germany was suspended Thursday for leading a high-profile open communion service at a Lutheran church in May in defiance of a papal admonition. The bishop of Trier barred Gotthold Hasenhuettl, a professor emeritus of theology at the University of Saarbruecken in western Germany, from celebrating the Eucharist and withdrew his church teaching permit.

On May 29, around 2,000 people crowded into Berlin's Gethsemane Church as Hasenhuettl distributed communion wafers among the worshippers _ Roman Catholics and Lutherans alike. He celebrated a Roman Catholic Eucharist, but the service was advertised as an ``open communion.'' ``I have come to the conclusion that, for the sake of the church's credibility, I cannot accept a priest practicing an open communion that was specifically forbidden in this form by the pope in his latest encyclical,'' Bishop Reinhard Marx said in a statement. ``I still hope that Hasenhuettl will relent and make it clear that he recognizes and follows church rules.''

Pope John Paul II in April issued a reminder that services in Protestant churches cannot substitute for Sunday Mass. In an encyclical, he branded ``unthinkable'' the practice of substituting obligatory Sunday Mass with celebrations of prayer with other Christians or participation in their liturgical services. Catholics, ``while respecting the religious convictions of these separated brethren, must refrain from receiving the communion distributed in their celebrations,'' he said.

Roman Catholics maintain that they receive the blood and body of Christ in communion, but many other Christians view communion as a symbolic re-creation of the Last Supper. Marx's diocese cited an opinion from an expert on church law that, while Hasenhuettl had offered communion to all who came ``without differentiation,'' the rules specify that non-Catholics can receive it ``only in individual cases under certain conditions.''

Hasenhuettl on Thursday urged Marx to reconsider his suspension, describing it in a letter as ``an unjust restriction of the execution of my office as a priest.'' He added that he would take his case to the Vatican if Marx refuses. Last month, another Roman Catholic priest was suspended for receiving communion at a Lutheran service held days later at the same church.

AP-ES-07-17-03 1040EDT


TOPICS: Activism; Apologetics; Catholic; Current Events; General Discusssion; Mainline Protestant; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholicism; catholiclist; lutheranism
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1 posted on 07/17/2003 9:33:12 AM PDT by NYer
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To: american colleen; sinkspur; livius; Lady In Blue; Salvation; Polycarp; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; ...
Hasenhuettl was advised of the papal reminder, understood it and proceded on his own volition. Does this constitute a mortal sin?

Definition: For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must be present: grave matter, full knowledge of the evil of the act, and full consent of the will.

2 posted on 07/17/2003 9:35:17 AM PDT by NYer (Laudate Dominum)
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3 posted on 07/17/2003 9:37:15 AM PDT by Support Free Republic (Your support keeps Free Republic going strong!)
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To: NYer
I attended a very similar service in the diocese of Richmond, Virginia, only the priest didn't get into any kind of difficulty with the bishop. Either he didn't know or it had his approval.
4 posted on 07/17/2003 9:44:17 AM PDT by k omalley
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To: Akron Al; Alberta's Child; Aloysius; AniGrrl; Antoninus; As you well know...; Bellarmine; ...
PING
5 posted on 07/17/2003 9:46:52 AM PDT by Loyalist
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To: k omalley
Either he didn't know or it had his approval.

"Ignorance of the law is no excuse".

There is NO WAY he didn't know. He should be reported to the bishop and if the bishop doesn't object then both of them should be reported to Rome.

The greatest gift our Lord left to His church is His Real Presence in the Eucharist.

6 posted on 07/17/2003 9:58:58 AM PDT by NYer (Laudate Dominum)
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To: NYer
If this particular bishop did know he probably thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread.
It took place about 10 years ago and I didn't know any better at the time. I thought it was a wonderful gesture! LOL!
7 posted on 07/17/2003 10:05:51 AM PDT by k omalley
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To: NYer
I think this ranks as apostasy.
8 posted on 07/17/2003 10:12:10 AM PDT by RobbyS
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To: RobbyS
I believe it's heresy since Hasenhuettl defied the Pope and rejected Church teaching. Based on his statements to Marx I doubt if repentance and obedience are very likely. Dismissal is therefore, in order.
9 posted on 07/17/2003 10:17:09 AM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: k omalley
No one should take communion who has not accepted the authority of the Roman Catholic Church. This is the rule applied by the Southern Baptists. They won't allow even other Baptists to communicate if they are not affiliate with that particular congregation.
10 posted on 07/17/2003 10:19:18 AM PDT by RobbyS
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To: RobbyS
***They won't allow even other Baptists to communicate if they are not affiliate with that particular congregation. ***

This is untrue at least in the case of First Baptist of Atlanta where I attended in college.

They did require immersion for membership. But at communion they stated it was for believers in fellowship with the Lord. The elements were passed without regard to denominational status.

You may know some that do, I do not and I've been around a lot of SBaptists.
11 posted on 07/17/2003 10:27:34 AM PDT by drstevej
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To: RobbyS
Addendum: I would not take communion in a Catholic Church since I do not affirm the Real Presence doctrine and because I would not disrespect their stated beliefs.

I have been offered the opportunity to do so in the past (actually asked to co-celebrate a funeral mass with the priest) and declined for conscience sake. I stood and observed as this part of the funeral took place.

[BTW, this post will self destruct in 5 minutes, to protect my papal aspirations.....]
12 posted on 07/17/2003 10:32:03 AM PDT by drstevej
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To: k omalley
If this particular bishop did know he probably thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Possibly he believes that it's only sliced bread.

13 posted on 07/17/2003 10:44:02 AM PDT by Loyalist
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To: drstevej
I know of several Baptist congregations that have this policy. In any case, all would accept that it is within the right of the congregation to make such a rule, since the congregation is the ultimate church authority. But every orgabnizatioin has the inherent right to refuse benefits to those who do not qualify. What this priest is doing is to deny the authority of the universal Church.
14 posted on 07/17/2003 11:15:16 AM PDT by RobbyS
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To: Loyalist
I am only slowly getting used to the idea that many of our bishops are not orthodox, even giving them the benefit of the doubt.
15 posted on 07/17/2003 11:17:13 AM PDT by RobbyS
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To: NYer
WWJhD?

(What Would Jesus Have Done)
16 posted on 07/17/2003 11:39:06 AM PDT by Blzbba
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To: RobbyS; Loyalist
Some of the things that went on in that diocese would curl your hair. I just about lost my faith. In fact the last two years we lived there I attended Mass about twice a year. I finally started putting two and two together and realized that everything that was going on didn't come straight from the approval of the pope. When we moved to our present diocese I told my daughter that we would check out the local parish to see if it were really Catholic. If it had been another AmChurch I would no longer be Catholic, I'm afraid. Fortunately our new parish is really Catholic and for that I am quite grateful.
17 posted on 07/17/2003 11:44:15 AM PDT by k omalley
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To: k omalley
Some of the things that went on in that diocese would curl your hair

Just curious but which diocese was this?

18 posted on 07/17/2003 11:57:01 AM PDT by NYer (Laudate Dominum)
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To: NYer
"just curious but which diocese was this?"

Richmond, Virginia
19 posted on 07/17/2003 12:03:31 PM PDT by k omalley
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To: k omalley; american colleen; sandyeggo; Hermann the Cherusker
Richmond, Virginia

Are you familiar with the group, Roman Catholic Faithful? They are Catholics who are faithful to the teachings of the Holy Father and the Magisterium of the Roman Catholic Church. Some of their members are priests, others are religious, but most are ordinary laity. Their diverse membership has a common goal -- to fight actively and spiritually to restore Holy Mother Church. They have been instrumental in exposing serious abuses occurring in the Springfield diocese. Their current campaigns include Arlington, VA, Los Angeles, CA, Rochester and Albany, NY. If you visit their web site, you can run a search on any prelate in the US. The results may very well stun you.

A FEW BLUNT WORDS TO CATHOLICS

Before you explore any other pages on our site, please take a moment to read the following statement, which was prepared by one of the priests guiding RCF. We ask this so that you may clearly understand what the Roman Catholic Faithful are doing, and what we stand for.

A very, very long time ago a pagan Greek philosopher suggested that 90% of you would not like what I'm about to say, but I do ask you to read it all and I pray that you will consider it honestly. First you must realize that we are living in the most evil of all the ages. Read your newspaper. I will take only one example - abortion. We have killed more children than any people in history, and no one else is even in the ballpark! Hitler, Stalin and the other monsters of history must peek through the flames of Hell and gaze in awe and professional admiration at the level of our barbarity. We have found a way to kill children and vote for those who protect the abortionist and we still go to Church on Sunday. We can read from the Bible about the terrible things God said about those who would harm His "little ones" and never connect those words to our own final judgment. I remember being horrified when I read in school about the Aztec Indians throwing children alive into the fire as a sacrifice to their god. How barbaric! But count the numbers. What is the output of the abortion clinics in this country each day? Who are the barbarians? Who are the monsters? At least the Aztecs will have the excuse that they thought they were serving God. What excuse will we have?

As followers of Christ and members of His Church we must stand in opposition to evil! There is a very real conflict, a "spiritual warfare" that the followers of Jesus are called to take up. This is revealed with crystalline clarity in all forms of revelation. God calls His followers to reject the ways of this world and follow him. This warfare is not for the weak or the faint of heart, and many are simply not capable. St. Thomas Aquinas said, "Grace builds on Nature." That is why the Israelites spent 40 years in the desert. A generation of slaves with a slave's mentality had to die off and a new people, strong and toughened by the harsh life of the desert had to rise up. Most Catholics today seem to be like those slaves. They are simply not capable of dealing with the truth. And the truth is that the evil that is everywhere in this world is also deep within the Church. Pope Leo the XIII noticed it and composed the "Prayer to St. Michael". Pope Paul VI proclaimed that the "Smoke of Satan has entered the sanctuary"! Throughout the history of the Church it has always been those who are within that have caused the most damage. Remember that Judas was a bishop and nearly all the heresies that have ravaged the Church throughout history have come from priests and bishops. In an earlier age we were better equipped to deal with this evil and protect the truth. No less a Saint than St. John Chrysostom said, "The floor of hell is paved with the skulls of bishops!"

This evil has festered and grown because it has been promoted and protected by a false spirituality with its roots in the "spirit of Vatican II". An astounding and diabolical pride has allowed us to turn away from the spiritual values that have made saints for 2000 years to embrace a false theology promoted by a false church and presenting a false god. This new god simply blesses whatever our desires, passions, and appetites crave. This god wants us to be happy and such things as sacrifice; penance and self-discipline are non-values. This is the god of the "group hug", "we are the church", and if you complain - "Don't be judgmental" This "god" is a god of love, but not the burning self-sacrificing love we see on the cross, but a phony and sick imitation, a daytime TV talk show morality, which is preached from too many pulpits and is fooling "even the elect"! It's a god for slaves and enslavement. It has found a home deep in the heart of the Church and the Church seems incapable of dealing with it!

If we wish to survive these days with our faith intact we should learn the lessons of history. We live in a time when the laity must rise up to save the true Church. This is very difficult because we are coming out of an age when the laity looked to the hierarchy for guidance. But as it was in the time of King Henry the VIII, you may follow your pastor or even your bishop and as a result find yourself outside the true Church. This is not an age that will suffer weak faith. Soon there will only be two kinds of Catholics - strong Catholics and ex-Catholics.

Leave "political correctness" to the false church. It's time for a little plain speech. Its time for a little truth! There are many homosexuals in the priesthood and in the hierarchy. Many of these are not living celibate lives, and they prey on others. They do not preach the truth of Jesus Christ because they could not do so without condemning themselves. They are in positions of authority in Chancery Offices and seek to add to their numbers by controlling vocations. They organize into "support groups" many of which are not oriented toward celibacy, but exist to provide "contacts" for sexual relationships. Priests are dying of AIDS at an alarming rate and some have even blamed the Church for not teaching them about "safe" sex in the seminary! (How safe can "safe" sex be, when Hell is the result!)? The Church has not shown any desire or ability to deal with this. Recently the Vatican told a priest and a nun to stop giving workshops across the country promoting the homosexual lifestyle. That's nice. But they have been giving these workshops for 20 long years!! How many souls have been lost and lives destroyed while the hierarchy did nothing! Maybe your newspaper today will carry the story about another multi-million dollar lawsuit involving a pedophile priest. The judgments are so high because juries are learning that bishops knew who the pedophiles were and allowed them to continue to destroy children. Bishops protected the pervert and provided innocent victims for him to prey upon. Bishops even hide perverts by trading them from diocese to diocese like baseball players! (You take mine, and I'll take yours.) Parents and good priests approach Church authorities with accusations and are ignored or referred to an inept committee. The goal of those in authority is simply damage control and covering it up. Recently I met with a very well known priest who was sent to represent the hierarchy in a terrible case of sexual abuse. His primary concern seemed to be to avoid publicity. I told him we would consider his request if he would answer two simple questions. First - Would he give me just one example of the Church intervening on its own to stop that particular form of abuse? - He didn't answer. Second - If we backed away and did not make this public and as a result of our choice another innocent person was attacked, would God hold us responsible for that terrible sin? He didn't answer that question either. It seems that the operative spirituality of the Church has become so weak that it is no longer capable of dealing with evil. It is a fact that authorities in the Church have allowed innocent lives to be destroyed and then have covered up the crime and protected the criminal! This has been done with the thinly veiled excuse that "we must protect holy mother church from scandal"! The tragic truth is this publicity and large lawsuits have done much more to protect the innocent than the Vatican, the National Council of Catholic Bishops or the Apostolic Delegate combined! And (with apologies to Vince Lombardi) the protection of the innocent is not the most important thing; it's the only thing! If it is necessary to protect one innocent child then I pray that every diocese in the country will be sued for every nickel it has and every sordid detail be put on the front page of every newspaper! The Church that I love and that Jesus promised would last until the end of the world is a Church that doesn't want to appear holy, it must be holy!

Allow me to return to that Greek philosopher and the 90%. Heraclitus was a philosopher and a warrior. During a lull in the battle he wrote a letter to the leaders of Athens regarding the soldiers he was receiving as replacements. He said that for every 100 men they sent 90 were useless. They were little more than battlefield clutter. Out of the 100, about 10 were fighters and the outcome of the battle rested on their shoulders. And maybe one, only one, was a true warrior. The spiritual warfare is no less warfare, and I believe the percentages apply. The vast majority doesn't want to know the truth. They just want things to be "nice" and the truth and the demands it would place on them as followers of Christ are unacceptable. I appreciate those who pray but if that's all you do, remember it says in the epistle of St. James that "Faith without works is dead and has no power to save you!" I would ask those 90% to consider joining the warrior class. You are needed! If you cannot - Then at least stay out of the way. The battle is tough enough without clutter. If you cannot fight this Goliath, at least stand back and make room for those who are going forward to sling their stones. The false charity and empty spirituality of those who mouth pious platitudes over the broken bodies and souls of the innocent is an affront to the martyrs and missionaries who gave their lives to share the true faith. I have seen, up close and personal, the heart-rending results of allowing predators to destroy children, families, and faith. A "drawing room" spirituality does not have the power to fight the malignant evil of this age. Delicate sensibilities must be sacrificed and hands dirtied in favor of a cross-centered faith! We are not fighting for principles or philosophies. We are fighting for SOULS and we must not lose!

NOTE:  This page may be freely copied and distributed provided that it is done so IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHOUT ADULTERATION.

20 posted on 07/17/2003 12:52:06 PM PDT by NYer (Laudate Dominum)
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