Joseph Smith's Consent Needed to Enter Heaven (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p.282-91)

Brigham Young Sermon:
Joseph Smith's Consent Needed to Enter Heaven
(Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p.282-91)

Brigham Young, October 9, 1859
Intelligence, Etc.
Remarks by President BRIGHAM YOUNG,
delivered in the Tabernacle, Great Salt Lake City, October 9, 1859.
Reported by G. D. Watt
Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p.282-91

I shall address you this morning upon a subject that is more interesting to me than any other pertaining to the life of man. It is a subject of deep study and research, and has been from age to age among the reflecting and philosophical portions of the human family. The intelligence given to the children of men is the subject to which I allude, and upon which has been expended more intellectual labour and profound thought than upon any other that has ever attracted the attention of man.

The Psalmist has written, "What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man that thou visitest him? For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour." This passage is but one of many which refer to the organization of man as though it were a great mystery—something that could not be fully comprehended by the greatest minds while dwelling in earthly tabernaeles. It is a matter of vital interest to each of us, and yet it is often farthest from the thoughts of the greater portion of mankind. Instead of reflecting upon and searching for hidden things of the greatest value to them, they rather wish to learn how to secure their way through this world as easily and as comfortably as possible. The reflections what they are here for, who produced them, and where they are from, far too seldom enter their minds.

Many have written upon this great; subject, and there exists a great variety of reflections, views, and opinions which I have not time to dwell upon in detail. I will merely give you a few texts, or what you may term a text-book. Nor shall I now take time to minutely elaborate any particular point, but will present such views as shall come into my mind, trusting that I shall have your faith and prayers to be able to edify both Saint and sinner, believer and unbeliever.

If the inhabitants of the earth throughly understood their own being, their views, feelings, faith, and affections would be very different from what they now are. Many believe in predestination, while others of the Christian world oppose that doctrine and exclusively advocate free grace, free will, free offering, etc.; and each party of Christians has its pet theory or doctrine, upon which it builds its hopes of eternal salvation. Such a course is like five or six hundred men each selecting and running off with a piece of the machinery of a cotton mill, and declaring that he had the cotton mill entire. This comparison may be truly applied to the Christian. world as it now is with regard to the holy and divine principles which have been revealed pertaining to eternal life and salvation.

Many of you, no doubt, have concluded that the doctrine of election and reprobation is true, and you do so with propriety, for it is true; it is a scriptural, doctrine. Others do not believe this doctrine, affirming with all their faith, might, and skill that free grace and freewill are or ought to be the foundation of man's faith in his Creator. Very well. I can also say to them that free grace and freewill are scripturally true. The first-named doctrine is as true as the second, and the second as the first. Others, again, declare that mankind have no will, neither free nor restrained, in their actions; for instance, the Rationalists or Freethinkers, who deny the existence and divinity of the Gods that we believe in. But so far from their believing their own theory, Mr. Neil, of Boston, while in prison for having no religion, wrote an essay, in which he declared that "All is God."

I might enumerate many more instances, and say that they are all right so far as they go in truth. The doctrine of freewill and conditional salvation, the doctrine of free grace and unconditional salvation, the doctrine of foreordination and reprobation, and many more that I have not time enumerate, can all be fully and satisfactorily proved by the Scriptures, and are true.

On the other hand, many untrue doctrines are taught and believed such as there being infants, not a span long, weltering in the flames of hell, there to remain throughout the countless ages of eternity, and the doctrine of total depravity. Some have gone so far as to say that a man or woman who wishes to be saved in the kingdom of God—who wishes to be a servant or handmaid of the Almighty, must feel that deep contrition of heart, that sound repentance, and such a sense of his or her unworthiness and nothingness, and of the supremacy; glory, and exaltation of that Deity they believe in, as to exclaim before God and their brethren and sisters that they are willing to be damned. To me that is one of the heights of nonsense; for if a person is willing to be damned, he cares not to make the efforts necessary to secure salvation. All this confusion is in the world—party against party—communities against communities—individuals against individuals. One sets out with five truths and fifteen errors, making the articles of his faith twenty; another dissents from him, rejects those five truths, selects perhaps five more, and adds as many errors as did the former one, and then he comes out a flaming reformer. Men, in dissenting from one another, have too often exercised no better judgment than to deny and dissent from many truths because their ancestors cherished and believed them, which has produced numerous parties, sects, and articles of faith, when, in fact, taking them in mass, they have an immense amount of true principles.

It was the occupation of Jesus Christ and his Apostles to propagate the Gospel of salvation and the principles of eternal life to the world, and it is our duty and calling, as ministers of the same salvation and Gospel, to gather every item of truth and reject every error. Whether a truth be found with professed infidels, or with the Universalists, or the Church of Rome, or the Methodists, the Church of England, the Presbyterians, the Baptists, the Quakers, the Shakers, or any other of the various and numerous different sects and parties, all of whom have more or less truth, it is the business of the Elders of this Church (Jesus, their elder brother, being at their head,) to gather up all the truths in the world pertaining to life and salvation, to the Gospel we preach, to mechanism of every kind, to the sciences, and to philosophy, wherever it may be found in every

The people upon this earth have a great many errors, and they have also a great many truths. This statement is not only true of the nations termed civilized—those. who profess to worship the true God, but is equally applicable to pagans of all countries, for in their religious rights and ceremonies may be found a great many truths which we will also gather home to Zion. All truth is for the salvation of the children of men—for their benefit and learning—for their furtherance in the principles of divine knowledge; and divine knowledge is any matter of fact—truth; and all truth pertains to divinity.

When we view mankind collectively, or as nations, communities, neighbourhoods, and families, we are led to inquire into the object of our being here and situated as we find ourselves to be. Did we produce ourselves, and endow ourselves with that knowledge and intelligence we now possess? All are ready to acknowledge that we had nothing to do with the origin of our being—that we were produced by a superior Power, without either the knowledge or the exercise of the agency we now possess. We know that we are here. We know that we live, breathe, and walk upon the earth. We know this naturally, as the brute creation knows. We know that our food and drink come from the elements around us: by them we are nourished, cherished, refreshed, and sustained, with the addition of sleep. We live and breathe, and breathe and live. Who can define and point out the particularities of the wonderful organization of man?

It enters into the minds of but few that the air we inhale is the greatest source of our life. We derive more real nourishment to our mortal tabernacles from this element than from the solid food we receive into our stomachs. Our lungs expand and contract to sustain the life which God has given us. Of the component parts of this great fountain of vitality I have not time to treat; but this interesting information you may gather in part from numerous works on natural philosophy. I will, however, say that the air is full of life and vitality, and its volume fills immensity. The relative terms height, depth, length, and breadth do not apply to it. Could you pass with the velocity of the electric fluid over telegraphic wires, during the continuation of more years than you can comprehend, you would still be surrounded by it and in the bosom of eternity as much as you now are; and it is filled with the spirit of life which emanates from God.

Many have tried to penetrate to the First Cause of all things; but it would be as easy for an ant to number the grains of sand on the earth. It is not for man, with his limited intelligence, to grasp eternity in his comprehension. There is an eternity of life, from which we were composed by the wisdom and skill of superior Beings. It would be as easy for a gnat to trace the history of man back to his origin as for man to fathom the First Cause of all things, lift the veil of eternity, and reveal the mysteries that have been sought after by philosophers from the beginning. What, then, should be the calling and duty of the children of men? Instead of inquiring after the origin of the Gods—instead of trying to explore the depths of eternities that have been, that are, and that will be,—instead of endeavouring to discover the boundaries of boundless space, let them seek to know the object of their present existence, and how to apply, in the most profitable manner for their mutual good and salvation, the intelligence they possess. Let them seek to know and thoroughly understand

things within their reach, and to make themselves well acquainted with the object of their being here, by diligently seeking unto a superior Power for information, and by the careful study of the best books.

The life that is within us is a part of an eternity of life, and is organized spirit, which is clothed upon by tabernacles, thereby constituting our present being, which is designed for the attainment of further intelligence. The matter composing our bodies and spirits has been organized from the eternity of matter that fills immensity.

Were I to fully speak what I know and understand concerning myself and others, you might think me to be infringing. I shall therefore omit some things that I would otherwise say to you if the people were prepared to receive them.

Jesus Christ says, "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou has sent." We are not now in a capacity to know him in his fulness of glory. We know a few things that he has revealed concerning himself, but there are a great many which we do not know. When people have secured to themselves eternal life, they are where they can understand the true character of their Father and God, and the object of the creation, fall, and redemption of man after the creation of this world. These points have ever been subjects for speculation with all classes of believers, and are subjects of much interest, to those who entertain a deep anxiety to know how to secure to themselves eternal life. Our bodies are organized from the eternity of matter, from such matter as we breathe, and from such matter as is found in the vegetable and mineral kingdoms. This matter is organized into a world, with all its appendages, by whom? By the Almighty and women who are made in the image of God.

All this vast creation was produced from element in its unorganized state; the mountains, rivers, seas, valleys, plains, and the animal, vegetable, and mineral kingdoms beneath and around us, all speaking forth the wonderful works of the Great God. Shall I say that the seeds of vegetables were planted here by the Characters that framed and, built this world—that the seeds of every plant composing the vegetable kingdom were brought from another world? This would be news to many of you. Who brought them here? It matters little to us whether it was John, James, William, Adam, or Bartholomew who brought them; but it was some Being who had power to frame this earth with its seas, valleys, mountains, and rivers, and cause it to teem with vegetable and animal life.

Here let me state to all philosophers of every class upon the earth, When you tell me that father Adam was made as we make adobies from the earth, you tell me what I deem an idle tale. When you tell me that the beasts of the field were produced in that manner, you are speaking idle words devoid of meaning. There is no such thing in all the eternities where the Gods dwell. Mankind are here because they are the offspring of parents who were first brought here from another planet, and power was given them to propagate their species, and they were commanded to multiply and replenish the earth. The offspring of Adam and Eve are commanded to take the rude elements, and, by the knowledge God has given, to convert them into everything required for their life, health, adornment, wealth, comfort, and consolation. Have we the knowledge to do this? We have. Who gave us this knowledge? Our Father who made us; for he is the only wise God, and to

PARABLE OF THE NEW SOAP

. Once upon a time in a far-away land far,far away, a young man named Joshua announced the discovery of a marvelous new kind of soap. People were skeptical at first, but they soon found that this new soap made everyone very happy because it got them so clean. Because it was so powerful, it got rid of dirt and stains that had been around for years.

. Because Joshua's soap worked so well, men found that they had more time to spend with their wives and children. Marriages got better, people were happier, and everybody admired the young man who had given them the soap. Joshua refused to charge for the soap and gave it away to all who asked for it. This bothered some rich people, but the poor loved it. Not surprisingly, the manufacturers of rival kinds of soap soon became very angry because their business was being hurt badly.

. Before long, Joshua had followers who were traveling around the country, giving away the new soap to all who asked for it. Of course, this new soap was an instant success because the people of Joshua's country had been trying for years to make themselves clean with their own homemade soap. Thousands became great fans of the new soap, and they formed small groups to spread its use. The other soap manufacturers became desperate and tried to get Joshua to charge for his soap, but he refused. He said, "I prefer to give it away, because no money would be adequate payment for a soap as perfect and complete as this one is."

. When the soap manufacturers found that this strategy wouldn't work, they started a smear campaign against Joshua and his followers. They said that the soap made cleaning too easy - that you should have to work harder to get things clean. They also said that Joshua and his followers were immoral because they had been seen in the company of the dirtiest people in the world. Joshua smiled when he heard these charges, and said, "Although everybody needs soap, it is the dirty people who need the soap the most!" These slanders didn't work because the common people realized that Joshua truly loved them and that is why his soap was free.

. Since their other tactics failed, the rival soap manufacturers plotted to kill the young man. They paid an informer to betray Joshua and then arrested him. They paid witnesses to perjure themselves in court, and finally they were able to have Joshua convicted of trumped up "crimes" and executed. The soap manufacturers were certain that this would take care of the problem, but to their dismay Joshua's followers continued to distribute the soap. Persecution of the followers didn't work either, for Joshua's followers kept spreading to new areas and kept giving away the soap.

. After many years, the rival manufacturers decided to try the policy of "if you can't beat 'em then join 'em." So they analyzed Joshua's soap and came up with a very clever substitute, which looked the same, but, of course, it didn't work. They used the same name for their soap that Joshua had used and organized a promotion campaign to corner the market. Because of their organization and slick advertising, they made great progress and even got many of Joshua's followers to join them for a while.

. Soon, however; these infiltrators started to charge for their counterfeit soap, and, because their distributors had replaced many of Joshua's followers, many people had to buy the soap now - and their substitute didn't really work! However; some people read Joshua's instructions and those of the early users of the soap and discovered how they could get it for free! Because of Joshua's written instructions, down through the centuries there were always groups who distributed Joshua's real soap for free.

. After several centuries the leading soap manufacturers decided that they needed a publicity gag to stir up interest in their counterfeit version of the soap, so the started Soap Crusades to go back to Joshua's homeland and try to recover the original bucket in which he had first made the soap. Mighty armies were raised because Joshua's homeland was now in he hands of some people that didn't believe in Joshua's soap. These Soap Crusades resulted in wars and the deaths of thousands of people and much destruction and heartache. Many true followers of Joshua protested against these campaigns, but were killed for their efforts. Finally the Soap Crusades ceased, but they did stir up a lot of interest and sold a lot of the counterfeit soap.

. Several centuries later, when soap sales were lagging again, the manufacturers decided to use force to make people buy their soap. They started an intricate system of spies to report on people who didn't use the "right" soap. They also used a group of zealous torturers who called themselves the 'Investigation' to torture people suspected of not using the manufacturers soap. Many people were killed by the Investigation for using Joshua's soap, and yet, Joshua's soap continued to be passed out to all who asked, for free!

. After a few more hundred years, a whole new kind of attack on Joshua's soap began. This time the charge was made that Joshua's written instructions were not really reliable. This attack came from two directions. The first group of attackers said that the instructions were missing some very important parts that the evil rival manufacturers had taken out in centuries past. Various of the attackers claimed that Joshua, himself, had come and appeared to them, giving them special authority to "restore" the lost instructions. Of course, the attackers all had different versions of the "restored" instructions and none of them were even close to being in agreement with each other. In many cases they weren't even in agreement with Joshua's instructions. Even so; they were able to deceive some of the users of Joshua's real soap.

. The second group of these attackers used a more "intellectual" attack. They called themselves the "Elevated Critics" who said that the instructions didn't really mean what they said, and certainly they weren't the final authority on how to get clean. They told the people that Joshua was just another good man who had high ideals, but his wasn't the only soap around. So they took the "mythology" out of Joshua's instructions and left an empty shell, which couldn't clean anyone, in its place.

. Well, about 2000 years have gone by now, and Joshua's true soap is still available free, and people are still getting clean and being happy. And there are those who try to peddle a similar but counterfeit kind of soap for profit or power. Now, there are some who say you, really, can't get clean, but a little soap is a good thing and everybody ought to have some, but don't go overboard! Others worship books about the original soap, and still others have Joshua's true soap, and have found that only through his power can they become clean. . In our parable, Joshua's soap is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Gospel (which means "GOOD NEWS") could not be stamped out by the "rival manufacturers" or anyone else, because it was a MESSAGE, not an earthly system of priesthoods, rite and organizations. The message of God's provision for the gift of eternal life for sinful men has endured even to our day and people are still getting "clean" by submission of their lives to Jesus Christ - ALONE. In spite of many attempts to destroy the Gospel message by eradication of the believers, or perversion of the message itself, the GOOD NEWS of what Jesus Christ did for YOU on His cross remains as viable today as it was on the Resurrection Morning.

Ever hear of word of mouth Boys and Girls? It's the best way to keep things going, even if God decided not to give us His written Word, this Message never would of died, for it is just too simple to die.

"Most people would sooner die than think;
in fact, they do so. "

-- Bertrand Russell

"Destiny....methinks you don't understand the oriental mind."

Destiny? methinks you don't understand Calvinsim, LOL.

xzins, the quotes I took from the OFFICIAL Unification Church website are thoroughly ARMINIAN. Jacob Harmens (Arminius) couldn't have said it better himself!

"Any notion why THE denomination to really take root in Korea was presbyterianism?"

Ah, let me "guess". Satan is bound to allow the free spread of the Gospel through the gentile nations. That being the case, the elect (of which many apparently are in Korea), who now hear the preaching of Christ Crucified, have come to belief in the Reformed faith!

But I bet that is not the answer you were looking for.

"It's not actually different than what you say about free choice being possible amidst determination. You might want to think in terms of their religious background prior to Christian presbyterianism."

I know you have a bit of a reading comprehension problem, xzins, but try to read the Unification Church quotes a wee bit more carefully:

...Some people think that God controls human history. But, in fact, progress in human history is dependent upon us fulfilling our portion of responsibility. God's grace is forever beckoning; God's heart longs to save all His children. But as it is we who fell away from God, there is a certain restitution which is ours alone to make...

As I said, Arminius could not have said it better himself.

Jean

"You misunderstand...

Moon IS a presbyterian versus Moon WAS a presbyterian."

xzins quoted in post #599:

"BTW, Sun Myung Moon was also Presbyterian."

xzins quoted in post #657:

Moon IS a presbyterian versus Moon WAS a presbyterian.

Do you blame Eck for being confused? LOL!

Actually, the TRUTH of the matter is that the Presbyterian Church which Moon was a member of EXCOMMUNICATED him WELL BEFORE he began his Unification Church.

Now, before you attempt to equate Moon being forced out of his church to Smith being forced out of his church, I must note that Moon was EXCOMMUNICATED -something which any good Presbyterian/Reformed church would do, while Smith was simply asked to leave.

More importantly, Moon also abandoned his Calvinism in exchange for his Arminianism as is evidenced by the quotes from the Unification Church's OFFICIAL website.

Smith NEVER abandoned his Arminianism and the Mormon cult continues to be ARMINIAN in their soteriology.

Which brings me to an interesting observation:

Of the Major Pseudo-Christian Cults...

The Mormons
Jehovah's Witnesses
Christian Science
Armstrongism (World Wide Church of God and its derivatives)
The Unification Church
Seventh Day Adventist

...they all share one thing in common: They are ARMINIAN in their soteriology through and through!

Now, if TULIP ~IS~ wrong and Arminius had it correct, then it is fascinating to note that ALL these Pagans were able to "see the truth" regarding the correct soteriology taught by the Scriptures, but NOT ONE of the REFORMERS of the PROTESTANT REFORMATION was able to get it correct.

For ALL the REFORMERS of the PROTESTANT REFORMATION were Calvinistic in their soteriology!

"Moon, Mary Baker Eddy, and Russel all launched from calvinist roots. "

That they were "raised" by parents who were in attendence of a Reformed congregation is FAR OVERSHADOWED by the fact that EVERY SINGLE INDIVIDUAL you mentioned ACTIVELY REJECTED Calvinism BEFORE (or on the road to) their heretical Theology!

Jean

Yes, I read your quotes. But, seeing that you are one who has a problem understanding statements of the length you quoted, I'll help you out.

"The fact of the emergence of the one person Jesus within history was not a chance accident. It was the result of the predetermined will of the heavenly principles."

Now, if your arminianism requires you to believe that Jesus' emergence was a "chance accident", then you have other problems.

In other words, in context, these statements are not remotely exclusive to Calvinism's TULIP.

"Where will Unification Church members go?..."

Do you think that if someone uses the word "fate" or "destiny", that one NECESSARILY has a TULIP understanding? Goodness, Calvinists don't even use the term "fate" or "destiny", LOL. The concept of "fate" (i.e. the ~natural~ working out of history is a concept deeply tied to the "free" will history's citizens) is not REMOTELY Calvinistic with Calvinsim's emphasis on God's PROVIDENCE and God's plan unfolding without a hitch.

Go read up on the Stoics and you (might) understand.

"1. The Will of God God's Will came before me..."

To understand that FOLLOWING God's "Will" shall bring personal fulfillment does not subtract from Moon's conviction that "...progress in human history is dependent upon us fulfilling our portion of responsibility."

(Context, xzins, context!)

Jean

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ARRGGHH!!!!!!

Hillary & the Raelians