BISHOPS CONSIDER CHANGES IN MASS

The Troy Record ^ | November 12, 2002 | Anne Fullam

[NYer]

WASHINGTON - A sweeping change in how Catholics kneel, sit and stand during Mass is about to take place after the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops votes Tuesday on a revised translation into English from Latin of the church's instructions for saying Mass. After five years of review, the "Lectionary for Mass," used by priests, deacons and lay ministers in the Latin Church to say Mass, is ready to be adopted. New missals carrying the new instructions will appear in pews in about a year.
"The person in the pew will see changes in about one year," said Bishop Howard J. Hubbard of Albany. "The changes are more relative to posture at Mass, standing, sitting and kneeling."
For some churches in the diocese, it may mean returning kneelers to the backs of pews or attaching them to the chairs that are used.
"We have to take a look at churches with no kneelers," said Hubbard. "Once we get it, we will have a committee study it and figure out how to implement it."
One such church is St. James in Chatham, where a decade ago, the interior was renovated from its 19th century Gothic and 1970s modernistic phase into a blend of early church architecture that included no kneelers on the backs of the circular benches.
"The question is if you're in the Papal facility, we do what we're told," said Rev. Gary Gelfenbien, pastor of St. James. "The only question we have, if most of the church stands, why do we kneel in the U.S.?"
While nobody seemed sure on how the practice of kneeling in America got started, in Italy, parishioners stand. Some Italian churches have no pews. People press around the altar in loose groupings.
The adopted document is a revision of a 1969 statement by the U.S. Bishops that kneeling best reflects an attitude of reverence during the Eucharistic prayer, the most sacred part of the Mass.
"The universal law is standing or kneeling," said Hubbard. "What is the best posture to express reverence? In the U.S., the bishops voted for kneeling. In Europe, it's standing. The thinking about standing is that the whole congregation is united with the priest in the standing posture. And, the cathedrals were built without pews. In the U.S., kneeling, the passive posture, is considered more reverential.
"I personally feel that it should be either or, but that's not the will of the majority," he added. "They've said it should be kneeling."
Gathered for four days to vote on a host of documents that includes the revised norms for dealing with clergy sexual abuse of minors, the nearly 200 Catholic bishops from all of the dioceses across the country are looking at protection for abused women, Mexican migrants and Hispanic ministry and a recommitment by the Catholic Church to caring for the nation's hungry and poor.
Moving with customary glacial speed, the revised missal has been undergoing redacting for five years.
The changes are the first major revisions since 1975 to the English translation of the Latin Mass used in the U.S.
Other documents to be voted upon on today seem to be focused on the Hispanic minority in the American Church.
"When I Call For Help," a pamphlet first introduced about a decade ago to be placed in the back of churches, also is undergoing changes. "Priests talked about it, and it gave women permission to talk about it," said Hubbard. The pamphlet is being updated.
Other Hispanic-related documents include "Strangers No Longer: Together on the Journey of Hope, A Pastoral Letter Concerning Migration for from the Catholic Bishops of Mexico and the U.S." and "Encuentro and Mission: A Renewed Pastoral Framework for Hispanic Ministry."
"Ethnic culture, we have a commitment to the poor and alienated," said Hubbard. "We forget earlier generations' immigrants, and we moved on."
"Those who are one or two generations removed forget what it was like for their ancestors," said Hubbard.
While Hispanic women seem to view the church as a champion of the rights of women in protecting them from machismo, Anglo women fault the church for doing more to support their gifts and expand the roles they play in parish life.
However, one document the bishops will vote upon concerns all Catholic women across ethnic lines. It is "A Matter of the Heart," from the Pro-Life Committee. The document was proposed at this time in recognition of the upcoming 30th anniversary of Roe v. Wade on Jan. 22.
In essence, the document reiterates the church's stand. "If a woman is pregnant and in need of help, the church and its ministries will help her, with compassion and without condemnation." The statement also calls for Roe v. Wade to be reversed.

[Domestic Church]

The Presto IQ test...sounds like the NEA created it.

[ELS]

never let it bother you some hound of hell's seeking to sink a fang or two in you...

I was reading a short essay by Fr. Rutler in this week's bulletin for Church of Our Saviour and he related a story about the Cure of Ars. A penitent had fallen over in the confessional and upon helping the man up the Cure said to him (I'm paraphrasing somewhat), "Don't worry, it's only the devil."

[Askel5]

You wonder sometimes. A devil, anyway.

[Future Useless Eater]

Kneeling WILL happen

The US church, and archbishop Flynn in particular are idiots.

Kneeling is TORTURE for some tall people, myself included.

The pews never have room for a tall person to kneel with his knees directly below his center of gravity. So the result is similar to a boot-camp private being punished by forcing him to hold his rifle with his arms STRAIGHT OUT in front of him for several hours.

The Catholics [ capitol C ] want to close ranks with
the catholics [ lower-case-c ] yet this is yet another F*CKING STUPID wedge separating them!

The homosexual-loving Archbishop Flynn will (hopefully) rot in hell. I will start leaving early if they vote yes on this. I might also have to nail my list of grievances to Flynn's front door and go look for a Lutheran Church!

[cebadams]

Maybe this is going to happen faster than I had imagined. According the article, we will begin seeing changes as early as next year.

[sinkspur]

Kneeling is TORTURE for some tall people, myself included.

If it is physically painful for you to kneel, then just respectfully SIT.

Common sense should prevail here.

There's no need to get bent out of shape over this (excuse the pun).

[Salvation]

**For some churches in the diocese, it may mean returning kneelers to the backs of pews or attaching them to the chairs that are used.**

"Every knee shall been at the name of Jesus Christ". (paraphrased)

[ninenot]

Also please note the willingness of various Church-types, priests and Bishops to LIE LIKE RUGS about European "customs."

Desdemona, and others, have posted personal testimony from first-hand knowledge that churches in Europe HAVE KNEELERS and that the people USE THEM.

This un-challenged lying is what brought standing-to-receive-Communion into the rubrics above-mentioned. I attend Mass at a large parish in Milwaukee (N.O.) where at least 50% of the people KNEEL to recieve Communion--yet our USCC blitely tells Rome that "standing is universal in America for the reception of Communion."

Fortunately, the Prefect of Liturgy in Rome has a staff which reads American emails and he personally INSISTED on the codicil to the statement which makes it clear that kneeling is perfectly acceptable.

It's not so much a question of whether or not someone MUST kneel to receive the Sacrament--anyone who's been at a Papal Mass (e.g., St. Louis a few years back) understands that that is not always possible.) Anyone who has been to Mass in combat understands that you 'do what you have to do' to avoid casualties while at Mass.

What bothers me, and MANY others, is the "ram-it-down-your-throat-and-damn-the-cost" approach of the Bishops, who apparently are convinced that their level of enlightenment compares with that of Michael the Archangel.

We need not bring up their 'level of enlightenment' regarding homosexual priests and the consequences thereof...

[ninenot]

Sinky's right. While a little torture is a good thing (wait until you get old enough so that kneeling is a bit painful regardless of your physical stature) and sacrifice and penance are recommended to the faithful...

There's no need to kneel and thus leave the Church in an ambulance. Since you testify that in your particular case this may well happen, the Church will not require it.

(I will check the statistics to determine exactly how many kneeling-induced physio-maladies are reported in the US annually. Apparently it is quite a bit more substantial than previously thought.) /sarcasm

[maryz]

seem to remember kneelers at Santa Maria Sopra Minerva in Rome, the Duomo in Florence, and San Nicolo in Bari. Any one else?

I seem to recall learning somewhere (high school? college?) that the medieval churches were built without kneelers and the people (it's easy to overlook the obvious) knelt on the floor when kneeling was called for.

[Desdemona]

Kneeling is TORTURE for some tall people, myself included.

Yeah, well, SITTING in a pew made for people over 5'5" and STANDING when under 5' tall ain't much better. Let me tell you.

[Catholicguy]

Bureaucracies meddle in insignificancies

<> LOL good line<>

[Catholicguy]

<> Amen, brother. BTW, Latin Mass magazine is, still, sending me free copies of its periodical. In the latest issue, Fr. Brian Harrrison, no rad-trad he, has a long article about the "Missal of the Millenium," the third editio typica of the post-conciliar Roman Missal first promulgated in 1969 by Pope Paul VI..."

After describing many of the "Ammendments" in the new Missal, he concludes; "The much-heralded 'conservative' admonitions and ammendments found in the new editio typica of the Roman Missal may have the intention - and, one hopes, the effect - of slowing down the pace of the post conciliar liturgical revolution. But the innovations we have surveyed in this article make it clear the underlying principle of the revolution, namely, that significant - even "profound" or "far-reaching" - liturgical change will be a constant and ongoing process, has been kept firmly in place by Rome for the new millenium. I am afraid one cannot help being reminded of the old revolutionary strategic strategic formula for astutely neutralizing conservative resistance to change; 'one step backwards, two steps forward.'"

Happy Advent<>

[ninenot]

Fr. B Harrison is quite a man. A bit of a dreamer, insofar as he thinks he can invent the 'reform of the reform' Mass. Conservative-oriented, and has been more and more so over the last 10 years; now to the point where he could easily be mistaken for an FSSP member--not QUITE SSPX, yet.

Of course, he's right about the revolution in Liturgy. It is likely that the solution will be a Campos-type arrangement worldwide.