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15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense [THE FINAL DEBUNKING]
Scientific American ^ | 17 June 2002 | John Rennie

Posted on 06/17/2002 3:10:50 AM PDT by PatrickHenry

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The article is long, so I just posted the introduction and the 15 points which the article rebuts. For the full text of the article, including illustrations and footnotes, see the source: ORIGINAL ARTICLE HERE.
1 posted on 06/17/2002 3:10:50 AM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: VadeRetro; jennyp; junior; longshadow; crevo_list; RadioAstronomer; Scully; Piltdown_Woman...
Probably overkill due to the lead artle, but here's a few links from the famous "list-o-links" (so the creationists don't get to start each new thread from ground zero).

01: Site that debunks virtually all of creationism's fallacies. Excellent resource.
02: Creation "Science" Debunked.
03: Creationism and Pseudo Science. Familiar cartoon then lots of links.
04: The SKEPTIC annotated bibliography. Amazingly great meta-site!
05: The Evidence for Human Evolution. For the "no evidence" crowd.
06: Massive mega-site with thousands of links on evolution, creationism, young earth, etc..
07: Another amazing site full of links debunking creationism.
08: Creationism and Pseudo Science. Great cartoon!
09: Glenn R. Morton's site about creationism's fallacies.
11: Is Evolution Science?. Successful PREDICTIONS of evolution.
12: Five Major Misconceptions about Evolution. On point and well-written.
13: Frequently Asked But Never Answered Questions. A creationist nightmare!
14: DARWIN, FULL TEXT OF HIS WRITINGS. The original ee-voe-lou-shunist.

The foregoing Is just a tiny sample. So that everyone will have access to the accumulated "Creationism vs. Evolution" threads which have previously appeared on FreeRepublic, plus links to hundreds of sites with a vast amount of information on this topic, here's Junior's massive work, available for all to review:
The Ultimate Creation vs. Evolution Resource [ver 18].

2 posted on 06/17/2002 3:12:42 AM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: PatrickHenry
When an ardent evolutionist's life ends and he stands before his "Creator", that will be evolution's "final debunking."

"A foolevolutionist has said in his heart, there is no GodCreator."

3 posted on 06/17/2002 3:52:34 AM PDT by AmericaUnited
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To: PatrickHenry
The fossil record and abundant other evidence testify that organisms have evolved through time. Although no one observed those transformations, the indirect evidence is clear, unambiguous and compelling.

After reading the paragraph above in the original article, I didn't need to read any more. The fossil record is one of evolution's biggest “problems”, and the idiot who wrote this "final debunking” article uses it to say why it is a law and not a theory.

No need to waste time going any further...

4 posted on 06/17/2002 3:57:52 AM PDT by AmericaUnited
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To: PatrickHenry
If you don't believe in God, you will NEVER believe anything He says, or did, or is able to do. In order to believe in Creationism, you have to believe in a Creator. If there is a Creator, then He created you, and you are answerable to Him.

People who refuse to be answerable to God, simply choose to believe He is not their Creator.

Phillipians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

5 posted on 06/17/2002 4:06:20 AM PDT by StDonTheBaptist
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To: PatrickHenry
I don't usually get involved in these arguments, but could I point out that there is a difference between the religion of Scientism and Science.

Science is a way of observing things, then codifying a theory that explains the observations. However, the same thing can be observed in several ways: such as electrons as both waves and particles.

Scientism, however, insists that only science can define what is true, and that everything outside of science is untrue. However, holding this supposition as absolutely true in itself is an unprovable supposition.

Until you guys get to the underlying RELIGIONS behind creation, you won't be able to discuss the pros and cons of the theory of evolution.

6 posted on 06/17/2002 4:27:46 AM PDT by LadyDoc
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To: LadyDoc
Until you guys get to the underlying RELIGIONS behind creation, you won't be able to discuss the pros and cons of the theory of evolution.

But how does discussion of Athena and Thor tell us anything useful about evolution?

7 posted on 06/17/2002 4:29:53 AM PDT by jlogajan
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To: PatrickHenry
People will go to any lengths to deny the existance of the Creator and the theory of evolution is the prime example. It is not by coincidence that marxists also embrace evolution - in doing this they believe they are not accountable for their actions in life (and hence we see the millions who have died all over the world as a result of marxism). Evolution is a lie and comes from the "father of lies", Satan. I personnally believe in and take comfort in knowing I was created in my "Father's" image and I see evidences of His hand in creation every single day.
8 posted on 06/17/2002 4:29:55 AM PDT by waxhaw
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To: PatrickHenry
What never ceases to amaze me is that on a supposedly conservative web forum, there are a handful of godless pagans who delight in stirring up trouble, and continually posting this heathen bulls---.

Hey, evolutionists and atheists: We'll just concede that you're smarter than everybody else. We can't touch you intellectually. Okay? Any chance you'll stop posting the man-descended-from-monkeys crap?

I doubt it.

9 posted on 06/17/2002 4:37:42 AM PDT by Gurn
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To: Gurn
What never ceases to amaze me is that on a supposedly conservative web forum, there are a handful of godless pagans who delight in stirring up trouble, and continually posting this heathen bulls---.

Actually the intellectual death of conservatism will be when the fundies win and drive out everyone who believes in the validity of science as a means to understand reality.

10 posted on 06/17/2002 4:45:53 AM PDT by jlogajan
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To: PatrickHenry
Intelligent design offers few answers...

LOL -- How many "answers" do evolutionists need? Wait -- let's summon the Almighty right now to consult with the "scientific" community and have them validate "Intelligent Design".

In the meantime, I'll stoop over a microscope and rest assured that somehow an ameoba is my evolutionary cousin.

11 posted on 06/17/2002 4:46:56 AM PDT by F16Fighter
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To: AmericaUnited
It's three A< in Alaska and I'm really too tired to get into a real discussion on the devisive hate filled speach above that has no business being posted on FR.

Suffice to say the only thing that is evolving is the arguements employed by evolutionists. NBaack when I was a kid Evolution was still being taught from those wonderful wall charts -- the ones beginning with the spindly monkey and working all the way through modern man and the horses who could forget the horses eohipis and all the rest -- yes those charts looked good but that's all they were unrelated animals (horses) 7 ribs 8 , 9, 7, 9, 11, ribs don't just appear and disappear but in the horses they did.

And the primates once again it was all looks several as it turned out were completely man made java man piltdown man . . . there were all searching for the missing link austrolipithicenes and then one day dr. Richard Leaky son of the Dr. Leaky who found the primate remains on the odelvi gorge in africa found austrolipithicenes and man did he a giant knuck walking ape alive in communist china

well those were dark days for our open minded evolutionist friends a few years later they reinvented themselves much like Al Gore reinvented himself and government,

I'm leaving out decades of crap that's blown over the wall from the highly scientific evolutionists.

My kids went to school and I was reeducated about evolution in the early 90's

the new yarn then (excuse me highly scientific trial balloon) was that there were these 2 single cells freshly created (what did they eat who knows) in thise amino acid soup brought to life like frankenstein and one cell gets this idea ( a Single cell mind you -- maybe it was a brain cell) I need a mouth and through the universal conciousness (This is definitely deep science now) from generation to generation millenia to millenia this cell had one though I need a mouth and low and behold said the evolutionist bango after 1 million or so years (What's a million or so years when you have all eternity to play with here) the thing grows a mouth -- so it could eat the other cells -- wel the other cells got to thinking and said if only I had a find I could escape the mouth and then went into think mode for a few million years and pow wouldn't you know it through the power of the unconcious conciousness of whater it is (NOT GOD!!!) the second fish sprouts this fin.

anyway this is now old had as evolution has reinvented itself time and again since that why anyone enlightened would go for something like that. sheddig their skin more times than a snake. And just as beguiling as the fiest serpent in the garden.

We've got bones we've got fossils but these are only tiny glimpses of what once was and from these dust fragments these new age anti god pholosphers have constructed entire worlds of fantasy to suit themselves.

In Texas is a part where Human foot prints and dinosaur foot prints cross each other since its discover the find was ignored later it was said that they were made (sort of like the way they man primates from the tooth of an extinct pig or a little piece of jaw bone . . . in the 1990's the US park service and geopogists and archeaologists converged on the site and pried up some layers of stone to the level on these foot prints and guess what damn if they didn't uncover more human and dinosaur prints together -- yet this still we are told can not be.

Yet every month mpw spomething else new is discovered these same people life coaches in a foot ball teach delclare its time to move the chains and rewrite the books again.

Do I detect a double standard? Do I detect hipocrisy?

I'm not sure I have enough faith to believe what color of life evolutionists will be preaching in the coming weeks.

If I were a corporation and I had an economist or reseach team all over the board like these guys are -- I'd have to fire them -- given time the only thing that would go extict would be my company under their thinly veiled science

Nuff said I'm going to bed

12 posted on 06/17/2002 4:47:35 AM PDT by Rocketman
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To: jlogajan
There is a difference between the scientific method and the religion that Science and only science can tell us the truth. The scientific method was devised by believing Christians. The Religion of science has some believers just as rigid and fundamentalist as any other true believer.

A lot of the arguments here are based on an unsupported first theory, i.e. that only science is true, and that science is TRUTH. Therefore, all other belief systems are FALSE and therefore all other belief systems should be rooted out and destroyed.

This is Religion, not science.

13 posted on 06/17/2002 4:50:13 AM PDT by LadyDoc
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To: Gurn
Does one have to be religious to be conservative?

On another thread the press was repeatedly criticized for characterizing Islamic religious hard-liners as right-wing so "religion" is clearly not a sufficient qualification. It must be a particular religion.

14 posted on 06/17/2002 4:56:16 AM PDT by liberallarry
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To: PatrickHenry
Free Republic is an online gathering place for independent, grass-roots conservatism on the web. We're working to roll back decades of governmental largesse, to root out political fraud and corruption, and to champion causes which further conservatism in America. And we always have fun doing it. Hoo-yah!

Liberal science on the FR...are you nuts!

We need to devolve govt---not evolve it more and more!

15 posted on 06/17/2002 4:56:31 AM PDT by f.Christian
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To: jlogajan
"The validity of science as a means to understand reality."

The "reality" of the mind is that it is separate from the material brain, and thus cannot be quantified by science and never will. A human spirit or soul if you will, is NOT subject to being bottled up in a jar -- unless you think it possible?

It is only human arrogance that demands everything be "proven" scientifically in a lab or else it is invalid.

16 posted on 06/17/2002 4:56:42 AM PDT by F16Fighter
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To: LadyDoc
A lot of the arguments here are based on an unsupported first theory, i.e. that only science is true, and that science is TRUTH. Therefore, all other belief systems are FALSE and therefore all other belief systems should be rooted out and destroyed.

Actually, the only people here asserting such things are religionist creationists imputing it as strawman arguments.

I'm an atheist and therefore don't believe in any god, yet I've never asserted that science proves or disproves the existance of god. On the other hand creationists routinely claim that Darwin is inconsistent with there being a god. So it is a creationist claim, not an evolutionist claim.

The trouble with religious belief is that it is not testable. You believe or you don't.

Science, on the other hand, is a method or system of applying rationality to real world observations. If you "believe" in science, it just means you believe in the evidence of your senses and your ability to think logically. If you don't "believe" in science, it means you think either that your senses are lying to you, that logic is meaningless, or that god is playing tricks on us all by sprinkling the world with false evidence, such as the fossil record. A twisted sense of humor, I guess.

17 posted on 06/17/2002 4:58:57 AM PDT by jlogajan
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To: StDonTheBaptist
If you don't believe in God, you will NEVER believe anything He says, or did, or is able to do. In order to believe in Creationism, you have to believe in a Creator. If there is a Creator, then He created you, and you are answerable to Him.

I believe in God, and don't see evolution as incompatible with that belief.

18 posted on 06/17/2002 5:05:39 AM PDT by Maceman
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To: F16Fighter
The "reality" of the mind is that it is separate from the material brain, and thus cannot be quantified by science and never will.

The mind is a process that is carried out by a material brain. Science can come to understand processes, at least in general terms. We understand weather, for instance, but actual weather systems are complex beyond absolute knowledge of all details. Therefore weather forecasting depends upon simplified models.

The brain is likewise very complex and concepts like understanding "self-awareness" are not yet in hand -- if ever. But just because things are complex, like the weather, doesn't mean we have to assert a weather god.

19 posted on 06/17/2002 5:08:11 AM PDT by jlogajan
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To: jlogajan
The big lie...

Originally the word liberal meant social conservatives who advocated growth and progess---mostly technological(knowledge being absolute/unchanging)based on law--reality...the nature of man/govt. does not change. These were the Classical liberals...stable scientific reality/society---industrial progress!

Then came the post-modern age of switch-flip-spin...Atheist secular materialists through evolution removed the foundations...made the absolutes relative and calling all technology/science === evolution to substantiate/justify their efforts--claims...social engineering--PC!

Liberals/Evolution BELIEVE they are the conservatives--guardians too!

Hypnotism--witchraft ideology--politics--religion--BRAINWASHING--superstition--BIAS---EVOLUTION!

20 posted on 06/17/2002 5:09:55 AM PDT by f.Christian
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