First of all. Scripture does not rebut Scripture. Scripture can explain or enrich another Scripture, but it cannot make it meaningless. Secondly, I did respond to all your posts.
By the way, one of the scriptures I had asked you to explain what it meant to you that you ignored was??..
1 Cor 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Please don't look up someone else's answer, but search the Spirit for the answer, as I do.
Please look over my response in post 51389, you will find I have already responded to your query as to 1 Cor 3:14. It did not occur to me to look up someone else's answer, although I am certain there are those who have already provided inciteful analyses that we could all benefit from reading, or quoting.
...failed to address a single scripture out of the 17 I had given you, so my study was a waste since they didn't seem to warrant a mention from you.
I did specifically address one of your passages in James 1:12, perhaps you did not notice it was among the passages you had posted.
I did not respond to each and every scripture because all 7 (outside of counting every verse of 1 Cor 9:17-27) were supporting the same point, which I feel is misguided.
All of the theorizing about the various crowns is very creative, overlooking only one thing. All of these crowns are one crown, and one thing, the thing that Jesus promised us.
Incorruptible Crown=Eternal Life
Crown of Life=Eternal Life
Crown of Righteousness=Eternal Life
Crown for standing fast=Eternal Life
Crown of Rejoicing=Eternal Life
I think James 1:12 makes that more than clear.
James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Jesus made no promise of a Crown. What was the promise? Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. There it is, that's "The Crown." And how shall this be? James 1:12 tells you all you need to know: Because you resisted the world. And how shall this be? 1 Cor 9:27 tells you all you need to know: Because you kept "under your body" (resisted temptation). Because you kept running. So that you would not be Castaway/Reprobate/unapproved.
And if I may be so bold as to argue your side. (other side speaks) "It says there, RIGHT THERE, that all you have to do is believe!" (other side finishes speaking, for that is the entire argument)
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
By all means believe Him. Believe every word He told you. Believe a book filled to overflowing about resisting sin, and being sent out into the fields to work, and about putting on his yoke. Believe his apostles exhorting to all who would listen to resist, to endure, and to run.
But don't believe it when someone tells you that once you are saved you are always saved, because that's not scriptural.
v.
I hadn’t noticed your short comment since you didn’t quote it or the scripture, or tell me which one you were answering, sorry.
I’ll deal with it now.
1 Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
V-14. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
V-15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
v. - Secondly, this passage is about man being saved because of his works and is silent on a man who has no works, who is not working at being a christian, who has fallen away.
If he has fallen away, then how is he still saved according to your belief? This account takes place at the judgment, you admit he has no works, but he’s still saved?
Your answer is not even logical then.
Now if what your saying is that this scripture is only about the man who had works, and is not talking about men who had no works, and therefore are not even in this picture, then here's the problem with that scenario.
This is talking about two different men, let me explain.
Here is what it means.
Verse 14, and 15, are two different men, v-14 is a man who’s works abided through the fire, and he received his reward.
Verse 15, is a man who’s works were burned, and it sounds like all of them were burnt, since he suffered loss, and doesn’t say some were rejected, but says that “if any mans work shall be burned,” so Paul gave an example of two extremes,…. one man, of which all his works were accepted,…. and then the other extreme,…… a man who lost all his works.
But notice, he was still saved regardless, showing that the works/rewards and salvation, are two separate issues.
This is about two men who were already saved, and had also done works as a Christian just as all of us who have eternal security have done. One man had all good works, and the other did not. He was like the man, who gave money to a Christian friend to help him out, then told everyone about it, or he kept reminding the man what he had done for him.
He thought it was a good work, but he had already received his reward when he bragged about it, so this work was burnt up as chaff.
Certain works will be disallowed and burnt up, but his salvation will not be effected by those works, he will not be given the heavenly rewards he could have had.
JH :-)
v. - I did specifically address one of your passages in James 1:12, perhaps you did not notice it was among the passages you had posted.
When you posted James 1:12, you were not commenting on the post I had used it on, #51,380, but it seems like you had just discovered it your self, and was answering my post # 51,381. You followed by saying,
v. - Thirdly look at this from James.
v. - I did not respond to each and every scripture because all 7 (outside of counting every verse of 1 Cor 9:17-27) were supporting the same point, which I feel is misguided.
So that only leaves 10 you ignored then, Okay.
v. - All of the theorizing about the various crowns is very creative, overlooking only one thing. All of these crowns are one crown, and one thing, the thing that Jesus promised us.
It’s very creative?…… Well I suppose that if I had no scripture to back it up, then you could call it simply creative, but I do have scripture, so it goes from being creative, to being scriptural. :-)
Sorry, your wrong again, Rev 19:12 tells us that Christ as the Lord of Lords and King of Kings, will be wearing MANY crowns, not just one.
Rev 19: 12. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Now while none of us will be crowned like Christ, it follows that we will have more then one if we earned it. Is it not reasonable to believe that since more then one crown can be worn by Christ, shouldn’t it be the same with us? If we have earned two or three or more, they will be counted as each one a crown.
v. - Incorruptible Crown=Eternal Life Crown of Life=Eternal Life
Crown of Righteousness=Eternal Life
Crown for standing fast=Eternal Life
Crown of Rejoicing=Eternal Life I think James 1:12 makes that more than clear. James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Hummmmmm, My Bible doesn’t have the words “=Eternal Life” written after them, probably a cheap Bible. :-)
It does look like you have found 6 different crowns though, and probably one of the prophets or the apostles will have all of them. Then again, maybe some nice little ol lady from Pasadena. Lol
Jesus made no promise of a Crown. What was the promise? Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. There it is, that's "The Crown." And how shall this be? James 1:12 tells you all you need to know: Because you resisted the world. And how shall this be? 1 Cor 9:27 tells you all you need to know: Because you kept "under your body" (resisted temptation). Because you kept running. So that you would not be Castaway/Reprobate/unapproved.
How you can find scripture telling us there will be at least 7 different crowns for 7 different rewards, then you turn right around and say there is only one crown, is beyond me.
Is your problem with receiving more then one crown because we Christians only have one head to put them on??? Now there’s a real mystery.
v. - And if I may be so bold as to argue your side. (other side speaks) "It says there, RIGHT THERE, that all you have to do is believe!" (other side finishes speaking, for that is the entire argument)
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
v. - By all means believe Him. Believe every word He told you. Believe a book filled to overflowing about resisting sin, and being sent out into the fields to work, and about putting on his yoke. Believe his apostles exhorting to all who would listen to resist, to endure, and to run. But don't believe it when someone tells you that once you are saved you are always saved, because that's not scriptural.
There you go again, intimating that Christians who believe in eternal salvation don’t believe in good works, where did you read or hear such nonsense? What good works do Catholics do to earn their salvation, that we don’t do simply because we love God?
Please get your facts straight, we differ from you because we read so many scriptures that tell us such things as Phlip 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
I believe that what Christ told us was true, and I don’t believe we’ll ever hear a “yehh butt” from Him over scripture such as John 3:16, or as above. He made a simple statement, that anyone who believed in Him would not perish, but would be saved, no qualifying statements or follow ups.
I believe in Him with my whole being, I qualify under His own requirement, and I’ll be in Gods kingdom unless Christ lied to me.
Can you picture Christ saying, …..Sorry, that was just a sales promotion gimmick for that week, it no longer applies, its much more complicated then that now? If believing in the Son of God will not save me, then I am indeed lost.
JH :-)