The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)

Associated Press ^ | 3/24/01

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Previous Thread

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Look, Steven, I got mixed up north and south.

You got more than North and South Mixed up. But then again that whacked out new advent website must not tell ya much.

[OLD REGGIE]

1390 Since Christ is sacramentally present under each of the species, communion under the species of bread alone makes it possible to receive all the fruit of Eucharistic grace. For pastoral reasons this manner of receiving communion has been legitimately established as the most common form in the Latin rite. But "the sign of communion is more complete when given under both kinds, since in that form the sign of the Eucharistic meal appears more clearly." 225 This is the usual form of receiving communion in the Eastern rites.

One receives Christ in the bread alone. Not half of Christ, but the fullness of the Eucharistic graces. If less than "all the fruit" was obtained, then Communion under both species would be required to get the "full" Christ.

Thanks. I looked for this but couldn't find it.

Now all you have to do is explain the correspondence between "sacramentally present" and "undivided body and blood".

[trad_anglican]

Makes ya wonder how a self-proclaimed expert in Catholisism doesn't know a thing about the 12 tribes of Israel. That's some pretty basic stuff.

Funny the things that can happen when we type faster than we think.

Despite his confusion on the tribes issue, the psalm SD quoted did support his point. There are many references to "house of Israel" that refer to all of Israel, not only the northern Kingdom (which in fairness could be construed in that usage as referring to the lost tribes).

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Despite his confusion on the tribes issue, the psalm SD quoted did support his point. There are many references to "house of Israel" that refer to all of Israel, not only the northern Kingdom (which in fairness could be construed in that usage as referring to the lost tribes).

Thank you. I was hoping somebody would bail him out. :-)

[OLD REGGIE]

Despite his confusion on the tribes issue, the psalm SD quoted did support his point. There are many references to "house of Israel" that refer to all of Israel, not only the northern Kingdom (which in fairness could be construed in that usage as referring to the lost tribes).

Dave's point was that the Matthew 10:6 reference to "The House of Israel" specifically excluded the 10 lost tribes.

[ventana]

Reggie. Could you do me a favor, please? Could you please post a single biblical reference that uses the phrase "Lost Tribes?"

I feel quite foolish, but all of my Bibles appear to be broken.

thanx
v.

[trad_anglican]

Dave's point was that the Matthew 10:6 reference to "The House of Israel" specifically excluded the 10 lost tribes.

Wouldn't Matthew 10:5 support that interpretation? It would be difficult to seek out the lost tribes while not going into the way of the Gentiles, wouldn't it?

Sorry to snipe and run, but I gotta go.

[OLD REGGIE]

I am a bit confused as to what is being asked. Some clarification please.

Reg. Are you in agreement with Havoc that the Ministry Jesus assigned his apostles was only to Jews that are called the "Lost Tribes?"

Havoc can speak for himself. I am of the opinion that the ministry Jesus assigned His Apostles included the 10 lost tribes.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Further, are you in agreement with him that such a concept, in and of itself, precludes Peter from ever going to Rome?

Once again, I don't speak for Havoc. I have not read him this way.

I don't know whether Peter was in Rome or not. I do know that, if he were, it certainly wasn't for long.
Now, don't you think it is time for you to answer a question? You are much better at asking than answering.

(Havoc) Peter was commissioned to teach the lost tribes of Israel.

(Ventana) Again. No. Not Scriptural. Wrong. (sigh)

(Reg) How can you say this? Peter, and the others, definitely were commissioned to do so.

Care to address this question?

[Invincibly Ignorant]

I feel quite foolish, but all of my Bibles appear to be broken.

The Northern Kingdom consisting of 10 tribes was carried away by Assyria and in the fullness of time, they lost their identity as the house of Israel and became assimilated into all the nations of the world. The Bible refers to these 10 tribes by the following names.

1. The House of Israel (1kings 12:21, Jeremiah 31:31

2. The house of Joseph (1Kings 11:28)

3. Samaria (Hosea 7:1, 8:5-6, 13:16)

4. Ephraim (Hosea 4:17, 5:3, 7:1).

Intersted stuff. And Paul says all Israel will be saved. If you believe in the 2-house theology it may very well be that we "christians" are Ephraim and will be united with the House of Judah as prophecy predicts.

[OLD REGGIE]

Wouldn't Matthew 10:5 support that interpretation? It would be difficult to seek out the lost tribes while not going into the way of the Gentiles, wouldn't it?

Sorry to snipe and run, but I gotta go.

Yes it would if it meant territory rather than people. I believe the meaning is to go go the Jews first.

Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out, charging them, "Go nowhere among the Gentiles, and enter no town of the Samaritans,

[OLD REGGIE]

Reggie. Could you do me a favor, please? Could you please post a single biblical reference that uses the phrase "Lost Tribes?"

I feel quite foolish, but all of my Bibles appear to be broken.

Well, you certainly should feel foolish. It is in the same chapter where the Perpetual Virginity and Bodily Assumption of Mary is chronicled. You know where that is don't you?

You certainly aren't going to be foolish enough to reject the written history concerning the Lost Tribes of Israel are you?

[drstevej]

***You certainly aren't going to be foolish enough to reject the written history concerning the Lost Tribes of Israel are you? ***

Here's one (worth rejecting)...

http://www.2think.org/hundredsheep/voh/voh_main.shtml

[CindyDawg]

That' okay, Mack's not a protestant either. He's an IFBB.

Well, I am too,unoffically. Offically I'm a card carrying Southern Baptist :')

[ventana]

Thanks Trad.

Let's also not forget the context of the usage of the phrase "Lost Sheep of the House of Israel." That is how he defined his own ministry in Mat 15:24. The charge he laid on the 12 in Mat 10:6 was to preach to the very same people he was sent to.

Since few here (I hope) would argue that Jesus was sent to preach not to the local Jews, but to lost Jews elsewhere, neither can they argue that that was the charge he laid on his disciples.

The connotation that lost sheep means the extant, regional Jewish populace is clear. And so it is also clear that Jesus was not using the term "House of Israel" to distinguish it from the "House of Judah" but was employing its legitimate all-inclusive meaning.

I will reiterate endlessly that "Lost Tribes" does not appear in the Bible, not because I am unaware of the 10 tribes, but because of the baggage that phrase carries as well as its irrelevance to this discussion.

v.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Lol. Heck of a site. I don't mind a little speculation about 2 houses and all that but I don't like it when it becomes pure replacement and hostility toward jews.

[OLD REGGIE]

Here's one (worth rejecting)...

Maybe I should have made it clear that I meant all! ;-)

[drstevej]

***Offically I'm a card carrying Southern Baptist :')***

Those better not be playing cards you're carrying!

[Invincibly Ignorant]

because of the baggage that phrase carries as well as its irrelevance to this discussion.

What baggage? That Peter possible didn't make it to rome? Ya, that would be some pretty big baggage to swallow.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Those better not be playing cards you're carrying!

I wonder if Catholics came up with the playing card idea like in Iraq, who would be the Ace of Spades? Mary or Jesus? :-)

[OLD REGGIE]

I will reiterate endlessly that "Lost Tribes" does not appear in the Bible, not because I am unaware of the 10 tribes, but because of the baggage that phrase carries as well as its irrelevance to this discussion.

You know what spin is don't you?

Whether you reject the "lost tribes" or not, the "lost sheep" belonged to them.

When you begin to play a semantics game you should make it clear it is semantics only.

I feel as if I had wasted much time because I took you seriously.