The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)

Associated Press ^ | 3/24/01

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Previous Thread

[SoothingDave]

Scripture?

You know. It's in Luke. The angel greets Mary as "full of grace." At least he does in the Vulgate. Protestants tend to mistranslate this one.

SD

[SoothingDave]

Weak Jesus? Please do expand on this.

You know. Jesus is weak cause He needs our help to save people. Just like any parent is weak when they let their child help with what they are doing.

SD

[katnip]

Did you see this?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/895173/posts

Good for his Bishop!

[SoothingDave]

I just did. Tom Daschle's bishop has told him to stop calling himself Catholic.

Bravo! It woudl seem the Pope's reminder is being taken to heart in some quarters.

SD

[SoothingDave]

Reggie, just one self-identified Catholic saying they "worship" Mary would be sufficient. For starters.

Unless you are going to post Ksen's favorite passage, in which case I don't feel like playing stupid semantic games.

SD

[OLD REGGIE]

You know. It's in Luke. The angel greets Mary as "full of grace." At least he does in the Vulgate. Protestants tend to mistranslate this one.

And the Vulgate is your personal Bible? How many "Catholic Approved" Bibles do the same?

[SoothingDave]

And the Vulgate is your personal Bible?

The Vulgate is the definitive Bible.

How many "Catholic Approved" Bibles do the same?

All the good ones.

SD

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Just curious. But I wonder how many Catholics in here, if they were to leave the Catholic church, would have family problems with parents and relatives etc.?

[OLD REGGIE]

You know. It's in Luke. The angel greets Mary as "full of grace." At least he does in the Vulgate. Protestants tend to mistranslate this one.

And the Vulgate is your personal Bible? (Also in Douay Rheims) How many "Catholic Approved" Bibles do the same? And Stephen?

Acts 6:
[8] And Stephen, full of grace and power, did great wonders and signs among the people.

[biblewonk]

Acts 6: [8] And Stephen, full of grace and power, did great wonders and signs among the people.

Ouch! I like this one.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Acts 6: [8] And Stephen, full of grace and power, did great wonders and signs among the people.

But...but...that FULL OF GRACE can't mean the same as the OTHER FULL OF GRACE, for it was not speaking of the one we pray to.

BigMack

[JHavard]

Acts 6:
[8] And Stephen, full of grace and power, did great wonders and signs among the people

So is it all right to start praying to Stephen now?

JH :-)

[Invincibly Ignorant]

So is it all right to start praying to Stephen now?

I think Stephen was a perpetual virgin. :-)

[SoothingDave]

Do you doubt that Stephen was full of grace at this point?

The importance is not that Mary was made full of grace, it is that she was this way before Jesus was even sacrificed. She was the first to be saved.

Nowadays, any newly-baptised Christian is full of grace. Likewise any Catholic as he emerges from Confession.

SD

[SoothingDave]

But...but...that FULL OF GRACE can't mean the same as the OTHER FULL OF GRACE, for it was not speaking of the one we pray to.

Wrong. They mean exactly the same thing. One day you might seriously study this mysterious religion that you mock.

Another news flash: you can indeed pray to St. Stephen as well.

SD

[Invincibly Ignorant]

The importance is not that Mary was made full of grace, it is that she was this way before Jesus was even sacrificed. She was the first to be saved.

Do you know for a fact Stephen wasn't alive when Jesus gave us atonement?

[Uri’el-2012]

SoothingDave;OLD REGGIE

OR>Scripture?

SD>You know. It's in Luke. The angel greets Mary as "full of grace." At least he does in the Vulgate. Protestants tend to mistranslate this one.

SD

47,161 posted on 04/17/2003 10:44 AM MDT by SoothingDave

Sorry Dave. Vulgate is Jerome's best effort of translating from the Original Koine Greek to Latin.

It is closer to the following when translated from Koine Greek to English

NIV Luke 1:28 The angel went to her and said, "Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you."
NASB Luke 1:28 And coming in, he said to her, "Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you."

Not

DRA Luke 1:28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
KJV Luke 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

chuck <truth@YeshuaHaMashiach>

[SoothingDave]

But I wonder how many Catholics in here, if they were to leave the Catholic church, would have family problems with parents and relatives etc.?

It depends on what you mean by "leave." If by "leave" you mena become convinced that everyone in your family is going to hell because of their faith, and that they require you to preach to them the true gospel whenever you see them, yes that could cause problems.

SD

[JHavard]

I think Stephen was a perpetual virgin. :-)

That cinches it then, I'm going out to get a Stephen rosary.

But wait, does the fact that he was also full of power, disqualify him as a mediator?

Now I'm confused again.

JH :-)

[SoothingDave]

Do you know for a fact Stephen wasn't alive when Jesus gave us atonement?

What are you talking about?

Mary, when she was told she would conceive was already referred to as full of grace.

This is before Jesus was born.

Stephen wasn't made full of grace until later, after Jesus had preached and Stephen became a follower.

This was after Jesus was born.

Mary was the first to be saved.

SD