Posted on 04/19/2023 4:52:54 AM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal
——>Like I said...
And like I said, The PTR theory is impossible if the Little Horn/Antichrist power is the Papacy, as literally every Protestant Reformer believed and taught. That’s why most who believe in the PTR refuse to discuss it.
——>Forget all the mumbo jumbo you’ve read about Rome. All the “theories and traditions” of fallen men. Just focus on where YOU are and where YOU will be. Rome will get sorted in due time.
Not good advice. We are constantly warned not to be deceived/devoured. The majority of “Christians” won’t be in heaven. When “Rome does get sorted out in due time”, it will be too late for most. Satan isn’t an idiot. He’s been planning for a long time. He’s after Christians and keeping people away from Christ. Those who don’t believe are already lost. Many will fall because of their trust in the PTR (other traps as well). I’ve got to admit that Satan’s a genius in convincing Christians that the Antichrist power will only hit earth AFTER they’re all gone, even though Daniel 7 says the exact opposite. Maybe think about that.
1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour.
——>IF the papacy is the “Little Horn/Antichrist” as you repeat continually, do you think that THE ANTICHRIST is on Earth NOW? Please answer YES or NO!
Yes (as I’ve always very clearly stated).
——>What the Little Horn or papacy does is largely irrelevant.
Not to those who lose their salvation because they are deceived by it. And, Satan acting directly through the Little Horn/Antichrist isn’t irrelevant.
——>I looked at Daniel 7 again to try and see something, anything relevant to the Body of Christ, but there is NOTHING There.
Maybe you don’t SEE something because of your false belief in dispensationalism and the PTR?
Can you explain why the Protestant Reformers saw it CLEARLY from the BIBLE, and you don’t?
——>Believers HAVE been judged.
Judgment occurs at our death, or if we are alive when Christ returns, it occurs at the close of probation, after the MOTB decision is final, which happens before the plagues. Once saved, always saved (OSAS) and once judged, always judged (OJAJ) are some of Satan’s other lies. Judgment is based on DOING the will of God, AFTER you proclaim grace (faith unto salvation). FAITH and OBEDIENCE are critical to salvation. Has absolutely nothing to do with earning your salvation.
Matthew 7:21Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!
Those who commit unrepentant LAWLESSNESS, no matter who they are (God is no respecter of persons), will not be in heaven.
Having faith and not backing it up with works renders your faith mute.
Early Church Fathers
on the Timing of the Rise of Antichrist
https://www.biblelightinfo.com/fathers-on-antichrist.htm
Who is the Antichrist?
https://www.who-is-the-antichrist.org/
According to Daniel 7, does the Little Horn/Antichrist come out of Pagan Rome, and last until the second coming of Christ?
Who is the Little Horn?
https://youtu.be/D2ZugKdNrps
Thank you for clearly answering the question. I will peruse your posts later and respond as necessary.
Breaking it down
- "Verses repugnant to another" -- there aren't. All of God's salvation - for all of humanity - is one. There is no separate paths of salvation
- "Why the plan of salvation is different" --> yet it is not. The plan of salvation is clear in the Bible -->
- it starts with a man, Abraham
- grows to a family - Isaac then Jacob
- grows to a tribe, a clan, a nation - Israel
- Then grows to the entire world --> just as Daniel envisioned -- the rock that is Christianity grows to become the mountain that covers the entire world
- When Jesus walked the Earth, He was teaching primarily Jews about the Kingdom of Heaven --> He was not -- Jesus preached to the Samaritans (the Samaritan / Syro-Phonenician woman at the well) and to gentiles --> A clear instance in Matthew of Jesus’ outreach beyond the Jews is His interaction with the Roman centurion:
Matthew 8:5-13 (RSV) As he entered Caper’na-um, a centurion came forward to him, beseeching him [6] and saying, “Lord, my servant is lying paralyzed at home, in terrible distress.” [7] And he said to him, “I will come and heal him.” [8] But the centurion answered him, “Lord, I am not worthy to have you come under my roof; but only say the word, and my servant will be healed. [9] For I am a man under authority, with soldiers under me; and I say to one, `Go,’ and he goes, and to another, `Come,’ and he comes, and to my slave, `Do this,’ and he does it.” [10] When Jesus heard him, he marveled, and said to those who followed him, “Truly, I say to you, not even in Israel have I found such faith. [11] I tell you, many will come from east and west and sit at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, [12] while the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness; there men will weep and gnash their teeth.” [13] And to the centurion Jesus said, “Go; be it done for you as you have believed.” And the servant was healed at that very moment.Note how Jesus not only readily healed the Roman centurion’s servant (8:7, 13), but also “marveled” at his faith and commended it as superior to the faith of anyone “in Israel” (8:10). And that led Him to observe that many Gentiles will be saved, whereas many Jews will not be saved (8:11-12). If this is supposedly a “Jewish only” view (“Gentiles need not apply”), it was surely the weirdest, most confusing way imaginable to express it.A second counter-example is from the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus told His followers, “You are the light of the world” (Matthew 5:14). --> They are a light to the gentiles, not a separate group
and finally you have
A second counter-example is from the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus told His followers, “You are the light of the world” (Matthew 5:14).andLuke 2:30-32 for mine eyes have seen thy salvation [31] which thou hast prepared in the presence of all peoples, [32] a light for revelation to the Gentiles, and for glory to thy people Israel.”- Then you completely misquote Paul in Paul's Revelation of the Body of Christ was "Hidden in God" - not revealed yet to man. -- do read Colossians 3 again
3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is your[a] life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.-- Not a revelation hidden in GodNeither in Ephesians 3
to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things-- this is, if anything clearer --> the SAME mystery for the Jews and the gentiles is "made plain to everyone"- That should explain many differences between Paul's letters and Gospel/Acts/early Paul letters. -- there aren't differences between Paul's epistles and the gospels
“For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that He was buried, that He was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.”Paul says he “delivered” to the Corinthians what he had received. This is a technical term the rabbis used, meaning that what they had received they faithfully passed on to others (it is a term that was also used in reference to passwords – the importance of passing them on faithfully is obvious). So, Paul is saying that what he had received, he faithfully passed on – in other words, what he preaches isn’t his own message, it’s what he had received from others. Second, this message that Paul preached, is in agreement with Jesus.
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Paul was NOT the first person to baptise gentiles -- Peter did that
Paul was also not the only Apostle who went to Gentiles -- Thomas preached among the gentiles in India while Bartholomew and Thaddeus went to preach to the Iranians and Mesopotamians respectively.
Look carefully at the Scriptures you posted. Who are they for? When were they written, and to whom?
Let's look at them
Scripture | Who was it written for? | When were they written? | And to whom? |
Romans 2:13-16: For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified… on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Jesus Christ. | To who written: | When written: | To whom: |
Romans 2:13-16: For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified… on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Jesus Christ. | To who written: To the Church in Rome | When written: 55 AD | To whom: to followers of "The Way" both of Jewish and of Gentile background |
Matt. 10:22: And you will be hated of all men for my name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved. | To who written: to followers of "The Way" who were of a Jewish background - both born Jews and converts to Judaism, More specifically this was to Greek speaking Jewish (both by birth and converts) Christians. | When written: around 55 AD before the destruction of the temple | To whom: to followers of "The Way" who were of a Jewish background - both born Jews and converts to Judaism |
Romans 13:11: For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed | To who written: To the Church in Rome | When written: 55 AD | To whom: to followers of "The Way" both of Jewish and of Gentile background |
I Cor. 5:5: You are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. | To who written: to the Church in the Corinthians | When written: around 53 to 55 AD | To whom: to a mix of believers from both Jewish and Gentile backgrounds |
That "abrogation" is not Christian but Islamic - unlike the Quran, the 73 books of the Bible do not negate earlier texts with newer texts. Jesus fulfilled the law
No, that is not what Christians have believed - no Christian since Apostolic times has taught such nonsense -- the Old Testament was not written only for Israel - that's why the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8 was reading it
The OT is about the community of Christ believers -- the ekklesia
What is the Ekklesia, the Church? Those who are "called out" - n the Septuagint, the Greek word "ἐκκλησία" is used to translate the Hebrew "קהל" (qahal).
The qahal (Hebrew: קהל) was a theocratic organizational structure in ancient Israelite society according to the Hebrew Bible,
Where the Masoretic Text uses the term qahal, the Septuagint usually uses the Koine Greek term ekklesia, ἐκκλησία, which means "assembly," "gathering," or "congregation"
The English language word "church" is from the Old English word cirice, derived from West Germanic *kirika, which in turn comes from the Greek κυριακή kuriakē, meaning "of the Lord" (possessive form of κύριος kurios "ruler" or "lord"). Kuriakē in the sense of "church" is most likely a shortening of κυριακὴ οἰκία kuriakē oikia ("house of the Lord") or ἐκκλησία κυριακή ekklēsia kuriakē ("congregation of the Lord").
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The Church i.e. the ekklesia is everywhere in the Old Testament -- The word ecclesia means assembly of called out people. In a religious sense, the word could also be translated congregation. These words would accurately represent the people of God when gathered together.
the “body of believers”, the “assembly of the saints”, the “assembly of the congregation of the saints” has existed since Moses
1 Chronicles 28:8 “So now I charge you in the sight of all Israel and of the assembly the church of the Lord, and in the hearing of our God: Be careful to follow all the commands of the Lord your God, that you may possess this good land and pass it on as an inheritance to your descendants forever.
Psalm 89:5 And the heavens shall praise thy wonders, O LORD: thy faithfulness also in the congregation church of the saints.
Numbers 14:5 Then Moses and Aaron fell on their faces before all the assembly of the congregation church of the children of Israel
That is what Christians - whether of Jewish or of Gentile background - have believed since Apostolic times
Galatians 3:25 to 29 should be making it clear to you There is neither Jew nor Greek -- i.e. there is no separate Church of the gentiles and church of the jews - there is ONE Church, the expanded Israel, the Kingdom of God
Where now, we must ask, is this spiritual kingdom of God? Where does God rule by the Word and Spirit of Jesus Christ? Where are righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost? Where is truth? Where are the people who bow willingly to God in Christ by believing the gospel with love in their hearts? Where on earth is there at least the small beginning of God’s being all in all?
Where in the past 2000 years or so of New Testament history, since Jesus was exalted as king at God’s right hand in the ascension, have there always been these realities? Where alone have these things been found?
The answer to these questions will be the identification of the kingdom of God.
The answer is: the church. The ekklesia is the kingdom of God.
The beatitudes in Matthew 5 and indeed the entire “Sermon on the Mount” in Matthew 5-7 identify the community of Christ believers, the ekklesia , the Church as the kingdom. This sermon by the king of the kingdom Himself describes the law and life of the kingdom of heaven. And this law and life are the law and life of the church.
all the parables of Jesus prove that the ekklesia is the kingdom. The parables teach various aspects of the kingdom of heaven: “The kingdom is like unto ....” And the realm thus described, the realm where these aspects of the kingdom are reality, is the ekklesia . To take one example, where is it that the king forgives his servants ten thousand talents so that the servants are called to forgive each other, as is taught in the parable in Matthew 18:21-35? Christ Himself gives the answer in Matthew 18:20: “Where two or three are gathered together in my name” and where Christ is “in the midst of them.” This realm—the kingdom of heaven— It is the church. It was the ccommunity, the ekklesia in Jesus’ day, no matter how numerically small, physically powerless, and culturally insignificant by the standards of man. It is the church today. And it will be the church until the day that Christ returns.
we learn from the New Testament that the wall of partition or hostility which formerly divided Jews and Gentiles has been permanently taken away by Christ (Eph. 2:14-15)
The New testament is adamant about the removal of the wall of partition between Jews and Gentiles
The teaching that God has a separate purpose for Israel and the church is fundamentally wrong - Galatians 6:15-16, "Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation. Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule, even to the Israel of God"
Who are meant by "all who follow this rule"? Obviously, all those who are new creatures in Christ, for whom neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything. This would have to include all true believers, both Jews and Gentiles.
Consider, for example, what Paul said to the Jews gathered in the synagogue at Antioch of Pisidia: "And we bring you the good news that what God promised to the fathers, this he has fulfilled to us their children by raising Jesus.... And as for the fact that he raised him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, he spoke in this way, 'I will give you the holy and sure blessings of David.' ... Let it be known to you therefore, brethren, that through this man forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, and by him everyone that believes is freed from everything from which you could not be freed by the law of Moses" (Acts 13:32-34, 38-39). Note that, according to these words, God's promises to the fathers have been fulfilled in the resurrection of Jesus, and that in that resurrection God has given to his New Testament people "the sure blessings of David." These promises and blessings, further, are interpreted as meaning, not a future Jewish kingdom in the millennium, but forgiveness of sins and salvation. The promises made to Israel, therefore, are fulfilled in the New Testament church.
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Also seen in I Peter 2:9, "But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's own people (mg., a people for his possession), that you may declare the wonderful deeds of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light." Peter addresses his epistle "to the exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia" (1:1). Though the word dispersion is often applied to Jews, it is evident from the contents of this epistle that Peter was writing to Christians in these provinces, many of whom, if not most of whom, were Gentiles.
I.e. Peter is addressing the Church - no longer Jew or Gentile
When we now look carefully at I Peter 2:9, we notice that Peter is here applying to the New Testament church expressions which are used in the Old Testament to describe Israel. The words "a chosen race" are applied in Isaiah 43:20 to the people of Israel. The expressions "a royal priesthood, a holy nation" are used to describe the people of Israel in Exodus 19:6. The words "God's own people" or "a people for his possession" are applied to the people of Israel in Exodus 19:5
Peter is therefore saying here in the plainest of words that what the Old Testament said about Israel can now be said about the church. No longer are the people of Israel to be thought of exclusively as constituting the chosen race—the Jewish-Gentile church is now God's chosen race. No longer are the Old Testament Jews God's holy nation—the entire church must now be so called
No longer is Israel by itself "a people for God's possession"—these words must now be applied to the entire New Testament church. Is it not abundantly clear from the passages just dealt with that the New Testament church is now the true Israel, in whom and through whom the promises made to Old Testament Israel are being fulfilled?
In Ephesians 2:11-22 Paul shows that God has made Gentiles and Jews fellow-members of the household of God, having removed the wall of hostility (or partition) which was between them
As Daniel notes, there are many "princes" of angels i.e. archangels - and Michael is the archangel over Israel and later greater Israel i.e. the Church
Michael is not Jesus - Jesus is God, no matter what you Seventh Day Adventists say to the contrary
No, it was not "discovered" in the 19th century --> the early Christians wrote of the significance of the number 7 as the number for completeness
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