Posted on 11/06/2022 5:28:44 PM PST by Roman_War_Criminal
——>The big clue as to what spirit is impelling the cults is the assertion that saved Believers can lose their salvation.
Then those BELIEVERS can’t SIN, or be JUDGED. They don’t have to keep God’s LAW, because to them, THERE IS NO LAW. The God who never changes, has no law? The ark of his testament seen in His temple in Rev 11:19, contains no law? The problem for them is that where there is no law, there is no sin. And, there certainly is sin in this world. OSAS/OJAJ. Sin, Sin some more, enter heaven into God’s loving arms.
Ridiculous assertion.
18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
apologies - didn’t look at this for some time.
John 5 is not the parallel of Thess 4.
And Thess 4 is saying “with the voice of an archangel” - meaning loud for all to hear
“a” chief messenger - just like in Daniel where Michael is ONE OF the “princes” i.e. chief messengers.
Michael is a created angel.
I am very puzzled by why the creators of Adventism, came up with the concept of Jesus as the angel Michael.
Michael - “who is like God?” - is referred to in Daniel (6th century BC).
Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
He’s also considered in Rabbinical Judaism and Pharisaic Judaism as the chief advocate for Israel among the angels.
But nowhere do they say the “Who is like God” is a comparison as you Adventists do.
No-one for 2400 years before Ellen G White and others created Seventh Day Adventist, no one considered Michael as God Jesus.
Why do you come up with such innovations?
Israel has been independent since 1948 -> that's 74 years ago.
And well, Israel was restored briefly in 132 AD as well during the Bar Kochkba revolt and later in 640 under the Iranian conquest from the Eastern Roman Empire
——>John 5 is not the parallel of Thess 4.
You can call it whatever you want, or not. But, it ends up the same.
“The apostles, John and Paul, give a good example of how two texts can describe the same event, but in slightly different ways.
——>And Thess 4 is saying “with the voice of an archangel” - meaning loud for all to hear
The KJV says “the” archangel. And, no created being is able to raise the dead with their voice. Other translations have it not as a shout, but a COMMAND, as in commanding the dead in Christ to rise. Christ and Michael are one in the same. Christ is “called” Michael, another name/title.
Why would Catholics believe that created beings can raise the dead? Doesn’t make any sense.
Why would you say the Archangel is the one who shouts “loud for all to hear”, when the subject of the text is the “Lord”? And, it’s not a shout, it’s a command, to raise the dead. John 5 makes that very clear. Your statement doesn’t make any sense.
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Yeah, JUST LIKE IN DANIEL...
Daniel 9:25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
t 1 Thess 4:16 the “the” is added into the KJV.
The Greek of the phrase in 1 Thess 4:16 is φωνῇ ἀρχαγγέλου = “voice/sound of archangel”. There is no definite article in the Greek
Back to 1 Thess 4:16. The need or otherwise of a definite article before “archangel” is debateable here. The word archangel only occurs twice in the NT: here and in Jude 9. In the Hebrew it also occurs in Dan 12:1 and simply means a leader of the angels.
So the translation would be more apt of “voice of archangel” - with it being ambiguous linguistically speaking on whether it is “the” or “an”
Jesus is not Michael, Jesus is God.
Michael is a created being - one of the archangels. i.e. “Princes of angels” as Daniel 12 indicates
——>And, no created being is able to raise the dead with their voice.
God can delegate authority. Mat 8:9-13
It’s a moot point. John already declares that it is Christ’s voice that will raise the dead. What God “can or could” do is irrelevant on this subject.
Again...crystal clear from the bible.
“The apostles, John and Paul, give a good example of how two texts can describe the same event, but in slightly different ways. Paul says dead believers are resurrected at the voice of the Archangel. “For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.” (1 Thessalonians 4:16) John records that the Lord Jesus said the dead righteous would be resurrected at the sound of His own voice. “I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. . . . And He has given Him authority to judge because He is the Son of Man. Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice and come out – those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.” (John 5:25-29) These parallel passages are speaking of the same event. Paul, in Thessalonians, calls it “the voice of the Archangel” and John, in His gospel, calls it “the voice of the Son of God.”
——>Michael is a created being - one of the archangels. i.e. “Princes of angels” as Daniel 12 indicates
There is only one Archangel ever mentioned in the bible, and that is Michael. Saying that there are more, and then giving them fictious names, is adding to the word of God, and BLASPHEMY.
What I don’t understand is why the Catholic church thinks a created angel can raise the dead with it’s voice. Doesn’t make any sense, unless that Archangel and Christ are one in the same.
So why does the Catholic church say that a created angel can raise the dead with their voice?
A created angel can’t raise the dead - did you even read the Bible?
It says clearly
“16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:”
It’s not an angel doing this.
it’s not Michael, one of the archangels doing this.
It is Jesus doing it - with the voice of AN archangel.
There are multiple archangels.
Daniel 10:13
“
But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.”
ONE of the chief princes i.e. ONE of the archangels.
It is blasphemy to suggest that Jesus is Michael.
The Jews for 1000 years before Christ (and even the Rabbinical Jews today) emphatically say that Michael is just an archangel.
The Christians for 1850 years emphatically said that Michael was an archangel - one of the archangels and definitely not Jesus.
Only your 19th century cult created that fantasy
——>A created angel can’t raise the dead - did you even read the Bible?
1 Thes 4: (KJV)...many other translations also use “the”
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of THE archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
...with the voice of THE archangel
——>It’s not an angel doing this.
——>it’s not Michael, one of the archangels doing this.
——>It is Jesus doing it - with the voice of AN archangel.
John 5 CLEARLY states that it is THE voice of Jesus Christ that will raise the dead. No doubt about it.
“when all who are in their graves will hear His VOICE and come out.”
1 Thes 4 also CLEARLY states that it is Jesus Christ that will raise the dead, with the VOICE of the archangel (or chief messenger). Voice is mentioned in John 5, and Voice is mentioned in 1 Thes 4. That voice is from Jesus Christ, who is also known as/called/title Michael the Archangel.
Do the dead in Christ come out of their graves when they hear a CREATED angel’s voice? Nope. Michael the Archangel is another NAME/TITLE for Jesus Christ, that He used in the OT. Same for Angel of God/the Lord. Same for Angel of the Covenant. Same for Captain of the host of the Lord (Captain of the Lord’s host.
Paul COULD HAVE SAID...with the voice of the captain of the Lord’s host, or, angel of the Lord, or, angel of the covenant, or, angel of God...because He was also known as all of those names/titles. Paul chose “voice of the ARCHANGEL” which preincarnate Jesus Christ was also known as.
“As this study shows, according to scriptures, Jesus is the angel of the LORD, the angel of God, the angel of the covenant, the Archangel Michael, who appeared time and again in the Old Testament to speak directly to His people. Michael is just another title for the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who is God in the flesh, the principle messenger of the gospel (archangel) to humanity, but He is not a created being.”
http://www.biblelightinfo.com/michael.htm
No, there are not. And making up fake names for fakes archangels is blasphemy.
---->ONE of the chief princes i.e. ONE of the archangels.
Adding to the Word of God is Blasphemy. Chief princes does not even remotely suggest Archangels.
---->It is blasphemy to suggest that Jesus is Michael.
Unless He truly is (also known as, name/title), and He is.
13. Prince. Heb. śar, a word occurring 420 times in the OT, but apparently never with the meaning “king.” It refers to a king’s chief servants (Gen. 40:2, translated “chief”), to local rulers (1 Kings 22:26, translated “governor”), to Moses’ subordinates (Ex. 18:21, translated “rulers”), to the nobles and officials of Israel (1 Chron. 22:17; Jer. 34:21, translated “princes”), and especially to military commanders (1 Kings 1:25; 1 Chron.
The heavenly Being who appeared to Joshua at Jericho is termed “the captain [Heb. śar] of the Lord’s host” (Joshua 5:14, 15). Daniel frequently uses this word in reference to supernatural beings (Dan. 8:11, 25; 10:13, 21; 12:1). On the basis of these observations some have conjectured that śar denotes a supernatural being who at that time was standing in opposition to the angels of God, and who was trying to direct the course of the kingdom of Persia against the best interests of God’s people. Satan has ever been eager to declare himself the prince of this world. The basic issue here was the welfare of God’s people as against their heathen neighbors. Inasmuch as Michael is declared to be the “prince [śar] which standeth for the children of thy people” (ch. 12:1), it does not seem unreasonable that the “prince of the kingdom of Persia” would be a self-styled “guardian angel” for that country from among the hosts of the adversary. That the conflict was against the powers of darkness is clear: “ 12:21, translated “captains”). In this last sense it appears in the expression śar haṣṣaba’, “commander of the army” (the same expression translated “prince of the host,” Dan. 8:11), on one of the Lachish ostraca, a letter written by a Judean army officer to his superior, probably at the time of Nebuchadnezzar’s conquest of Judah in 588–586 B.C., during the time that Daniel was in Babylon (see Vol. II, pp. 97, 98; see Jer. 34:7).
On the other hand, śar may be used in the common sense of “ruler,” and in that sense would refer to Cyrus, king of Persia. So understood, the angels of heaven are seen striving with the king, that he might render a verdict favorable to the Jews.
SDA Bible Commentary
——>The Christians for 1850 years emphatically said that Michael was an archangel - one of the archangels and definitely not Jesus.
....with the voice of the archangel; so Michael is called, in Judges 1:9 with which compare Revelation 12:7 and who perhaps is no other than Christ himself, who is the head of all principality and power; and the sense be, that Christ shall descend from heaven with a voice, or shall then utter such a voice, as will show him to be the archangel; or as the Syriac version renders it, “the head”, or “prince of angels”; and which whether, it will be an articulate voice, such as was expressed at the grave of Lazarus; or a violent clap of thunder, which is the voice of God; or the exertion of the power of Christ, is not certain: it is added,
John Gill (commentary on 1 Thes 4:16)
Another “parallel” verse (s):
Daniel 12:
1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Michael and Jesus Christ are one in the same.
“Greek New Testament (Interlinear) with Strong’s Numbers”
1st Thess 4:16, in part:
ο
G3588
T-NSM
ὁ
the
κυριος
G2962
N-NSM
κύριος
lord
εν
G1722
PREP
ἔν
in
κελευσματι
G2752
N-DSN
κέλευμα
a cry of incitement
εν
G1722
PREP
ἔν
in
φωνη
G5456
N-DSF
φωνή
a tone
αρχαγγελου
G743
N-GSM
ἀρχάγγελος
a chief angel
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